Son Heung-Min

[Jurgen the German]

yeah, if by “lesser” you mean “hard working” and “best” you mean “lazy”

Hard work is great but you need to have some end product at the end of the hard work. I wouldn’t ever call Kane or Son lazy. It didn’t happen for neither of them today. I’m surprised Kane didn’t drop deeper and try and get more involved. It took us 5 minutes to get out of our half because we have no creativity in our third of the pitch. Couldn’t help but think he’s been told to stay up front or he’s frustrated because he hasn’t scored in a few games.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Eriksen and Kane had more to their game. Son literally does nothing when he is not putting the ball in the net. I literally do not get excited when he is on the ball unless it falls to him in a goalscoring position. What does he do that Jamie Vardy doesn’t?

Doesn’t it say a lot that he’s scored 17 goals and supposedly had a “poor season” by your standard? Would you rather he played badly and didn’t score like most players when they are off form?

 

[Yiddo]

Doesn’t it say a lot that he’s scored 17 goals and supposedly had a “poor season” by your standard? Would you rather he played badly and didn’t score like most players when they are off form?

I’d rather he get’s subbed off early when he has been absolutely embarrassing like he was today. If that carries on into the next game then he should get dropped.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I’d rather he get’s subbed off early when he has been absolutely embarrassing like he was today. If that carries on into the next game then he should get dropped.

Not defending his performance today but you’d really sub him off over the rest of the team who also were extremely poor? Do you realise our next highest goalscorer after Kane and Son is own goals?

Is it Son and Kane’s fault when the back 6 take 20 passes to get the ball out of our half?

 

[glasgowspur]

Hard work is great but you need to have some end product at the end of the hard work. I wouldn’t ever call Kane or Son lazy. It didn’t happen for neither of them today. I’m surprised Kane didn’t drop deeper and try and get more involved. It took us 5 minutes to get out of our half because we have no creativity in our third of the pitch. Couldn’t help but think he’s been told to stay up front or he’s frustrated because he hasn’t scored in a few games.

I really don't understand what all that passing about in our own box was all about today.

 

[Lilbaz]

I really don't understand what all that passing about in our own box was all about today.

Especially as we ended up hoofing upfield anyway.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I really don't understand what all that passing about in our own box was all about today.

Think it’s painfully obvious none of our CB’s are that good or confident on the ball other than Romero. We need another ball playing CB who can turn defence into attacks.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I really don't understand what all that passing about in our own box was all about today.

They were waiting for something in front of them that never came because of how well Brighton set up. They also shackled Bentancur so he was only an option when under pressure, in which case he went backwards or sideways, or when he came very deep and was presented with the same problem Dier and Romero had.

 

[DTA]

They were waiting for something in front of them that never came because of how well Brighton set up. They also shackled Bentancur so he was only an option when under pressure, in which case he went backwards or sideways, or when he came very deep and was presented with the same problem Dier and Romero had.

actual insightful analysis there… we don’t take too kindly to that round here.

 

[Yiddo]

Not defending his performance today but you’d really sub him off over the rest of the team who also were extremely poor? Do you realise our next highest goalscorer after Kane and Son is own goals?

Is it Son and Kane’s fault when the back 6 take 20 passes to get the ball out of our half?

It's Kane and Son's fault when the ball keeps coming back at us due to them losing it with every touch. How can any of the other attackers get any goals if they get 5 minutes here and there?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Not defending his performance today but you’d really sub him off over the rest of the team who also were extremely poor? Do you realise our next highest goalscorer after Kane and Son is own goals?

Is it Son and Kane’s fault when the back 6 take 20 passes to get the ball out of our half?

That is contes system
We pass it around to build attacks and get the opposition to move
Issue comes when players don’t move off the ball for passing options. Or when they do live they can’t or don’t control the passes well enough

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It's Kane and Son's fault when the ball keeps coming back at us due to them losing it with every touch. How can any of the other attackers get any goals if they get 5 minutes here and there?

If Kane doesn’t play, we don’t play
Yesterday was odd as Kane didn’t drop deep and up front he was out muscled every time even by smaller players. seeing Cucarella playing CB and dominate our attackers was IMO embarrassing. He is a quality player but they should be able to do something against a guy out of position

 

[Jurgen the German]

It's Kane and Son's fault when the ball keeps coming back at us due to them losing it with every touch. How can any of the other attackers get any goals if they get 5 minutes here and there?

But once again, if you sub them off who scores our goals? Kulusevski is the only other player who has showed any kind of goalscoring form. Everyone bigs up Bergwijn because he scored a couple against Leicester but he’s really not showed anything consistent in terms of goals. We need better players to challenge the likes of Kane and Son so we can haul them off earlier if they are having a stinker. Shall we bench both of them for the last 6 games and see how many goals and points we pick up?

 

[MKSpur]

I think he gets kept on when we are struggling as he has demonstrated over several seasons that he can deliver and Conte just doesn’t have that faith in Bergwijn - ideally we will get someone in who can provide genuine competition which in turn may help us be in a position to unleash Son as an impact sub and manage his minutes as he enters his 30s.

Bergwijn is benefiting from not playing, it always happens when a player is on the bench for a while you want them to come on to replace a player who is struggling, but more often than not when they enter the fray the reasons they aren’t starting become obvious. It is difficult to come into a game when the team are already struggling and starting to hoof it and panic but even as one of his bigger critics I wanted Moura thinking he could give us something different but other than ensuring Kulu didn’t pick up a soft yellow it was the typical intial promise of something happening with a burst away from his man and then something resembling a pinball machine when a decision had to be made.

I think we have the foundations to be a CL team again but when the 5 sub rule comes in you can see how this could hinder us compared to City, Liverpool and Chelsea when you look at their benches, then United become an obvious beneficiary of the rule if they start buying players they actually need. Potentially a pivotal summer which would ideally be backed by a top 4 finish and some outside investment to continue the squad overhaul (January has given me cause for some rare tempered optimism with that!)

 

[90291Spur]

It's Kane and Son's fault when the ball keeps coming back at us due to them losing it with every touch. How can any of the other attackers get any goals if they get 5 minutes here and there?

Every touch? Dramatic much? Clearly you are not a fan of Kane and Son and our reliance/over reliance on them.

 

[harr1984]

But once again, if you sub them off who scores our goals? Kulusevski is the only other player who has showed any kind of goalscoring form. Everyone bigs up Bergwijn because he scored a couple against Leicester but he’s really not showed anything consistent in terms of goals. We need better players to challenge the likes of Kane and Son so we can haul them off earlier if they are having a stinker. Shall we bench both of them for the last 6 games and see how many goals and points we pick up?

The poster just said how can anyone show what they can offer when they only get five minutes here and there, and your reply is but who will score our goals? He’s just made the point that Bergwijn is only ever getting five minutes at the end of games, how on earth is that enough to show what you have to offer? His one game where he actually started up front and got minutes was against West Ham where he got a goal and assist. How many goals you reckon Son is coming up with being given on a good day he gets the last five minutes of games? Have you seen Bergwijn for the Netherlands? You might not rate international football, but what there is no doubt about is that the guy has technique and can finish. But you can’t expect him to be that way for us all the time if he is given the last five minutes here and there.


And Conte isn’t helping anyone by using Bergwijn that way. Because Bergwijn won’t want to stay, we aren’t going to get anyone better and Kane and/or Son could actually get injured or need resting and because Bergwijn is so undercooked he won’t get to put in the performances he’s capable of. I told you Bergwijn has a better goals to minutes ratio in the PL than Son, so let’s not pretend Bergwijn is incapable of helping out in some games….

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Son with space to play in is world class
Without that space his game isn’t as effective
That’s always been the case with him and it does show
Yesterday we had no room to play as they had basically a 7 man midfield

 

[Jurgen the German]

The poster just said how can anyone show what they can offer when they only get five minutes here and there, and your reply is but who will score our goals? He’s just made the point that Bergwijn is only ever getting five minutes at the end of games, how on earth is that enough to show what you have to offer? His one game where he actually started up front and got minutes was against West Ham where he got a goal and assist. How many goals you reckon Son is coming up with being given on a good day he gets the last five minutes of games? Have you seen Bergwijn for the Netherlands? You might not rate international football, but what there is no doubt about is that the guy has technique and can finish. But you can’t expect him to be that way for us all the time if he is given the last five minutes here and there.


And Conte isn’t helping anyone by using Bergwijn that way. Because Bergwijn won’t want to stay, we aren’t going to get anyone better and Kane and/or Son could actually get injured or need resting and because Bergwijn is so undercooked he won’t get to put in the performances he’s capable of. I told you Bergwijn has a better goals to minutes ratio in the PL than Son, so let’s not pretend Bergwijn is incapable of helping out in some games….

Read his original post, he said “hate to say I told you so” very quickly after we lost as if it was Son’s fault we couldn’t create anything. He scored a hat trick last week and yet failed to give him any credit and said his numbers are inflated and he’s had a poor season despite being 2nd highest scorer in the league. Bergwijn needs to make himself undroppable like Kulusevski has. I like Bergwijn and I appreciate him for what he is but let’s not pretend he’s this brick hot goalscorer because he’s scored the winner in one or two games. I’d say he’s had the minutes his form has warranted tbh. Not sure what the point is comparing minutes per goal when the comparison the minutes Son and Bergwijn get are very different as you point out. Yes coming off the bench comes with pressure but you also face defences who are tired. I’m sure Son could do more than an adequate job off the bench if we needed him to but we need him on the pitch as only him and Kane get the majority of our goals.

And I’m not sure why Son still gets viewed as purely a goalscorer who does nothing else when he’s on the pitch. He creates and assists far more than he did when we first signed him. But it seems if we lose a game and Son and Kane don’t score then the same faces will dig them out for daring to have an off day, whilst letting off the other 9 players for also not turning up. Funny no one goes into the other players threads and blames them when we lose a game.

 

[harr1984]

Read his original post, he said “hate to say I told you so” very quickly after we lost as if it was Son’s fault we couldn’t create anything. He scored a hat trick last week and yet failed to give him any credit and said his numbers are inflated and he’s had a poor season despite being 2nd highest scorer in the league. Bergwijn needs to make himself undroppable like Kulusevski has. I like Bergwijn and I appreciate him for what he is but let’s not pretend he’s this brick hot goalscorer because he’s scored the winner in one or two games. I’d say he’s had the minutes his form has warranted tbh. Not sure what the point is comparing minutes per goal when the comparison the minutes Son and Bergwijn get are very different as you point out. Yes coming off the bench comes with pressure but you also face defences who are tired. I’m sure Son could do more than an adequate job off the bench if we needed him to but we need him on the pitch as only him and Kane get the majority of our goals.

And I’m not sure why Son still gets viewed as purely a goalscorer who does nothing else when he’s on the pitch. He creates and assists far more than he did when we first signed him. But it seems if we lose a game and Son and Kane don’t score then the same faces will dig them out for daring to have an off day, whilst letting off the other 9 players for also not turning up. Funny no one goes into the other players threads and blames them when we lose a game.

As soon as Kulu came here he was starting games because he was a Conte signing. Bergwijn can’t make himself undroppable with five minutes from the bench each time. Absolutely agree Son has provided more than just goals and when on form he is brilliant. But I am not having it that throughout a 38 league game season there are not times when Bergwijn could have started and played at least an hour due to Son (or Kane) form or fatigue as Son plays a hell of a lot of football for us plus international games and all the travel that involves being that it’s Korea is a lot more than the average international. We are not going to get a better backup than Bergwijn and people always question why don’t we sign a striker - well what is the point because Kane and Son get played literally every game regardless of fatigue or form and anyone worth their salt is not going to put up with that….

 

[Baleforce]

There were a lot of times yesterday when it was Sons fault we weren’t creating anything imo, he turned the ball over every single time he touched it in the first half hour.

He has games where he’s a liability, too many of them to warrant playing every minute of every game without it being questioned.