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Sick sick world what is wrong with people

Feels like you could do multiple masters on the history of why the conflict is happening and to go to a childish level, determine "who started it?" as if that makes any real difference.

Ideally all over the world people could go to a music festival without in turning in to a horror movie style massacre or feel comfortable in a hospital without the very real risk of it being bombed.

Maybe it's ignorant to say but it feels like religion has played a part in it, but then even without that tool used in a destructive way I'm sure there's be another excuse used. Human beings can be astoundingly awful at times.

Isn't it funny that on social media all the Jewish people I know share the reason why their side is right and on the Muslim side, the folks I know also share plenty of information on why it's Israel's fault - what a crazy coincidence.............
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I think whenever your approach descends to 'indiscriminate' in killing/toturing/raping etc...then your disregard for human life should come back at you tenfold.
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Israel were happy to cut Gaza off and cause suffering to anyone there on the sole basis that they were on that piece of land. That was as (in) discriminate as what Hamas did - just one seems more "socially acceptable" to the West.
The international community turned a blind eye to the above.

Hamas have a complete disregard for human life based in Israel. Israel have a complete disregard for human life based in Gaza. Both are utterly despicable. Israel's disregard for human life has come back on them ten fold. As has half of the world's for not recognising Palestine as a state and for not I. Stopping Israel increasing its settlement and II. Continuing to allow Israel to treat Gaza as it has and not do something about the incursion into the Sinei in '67

Should probably just make "the promised land" under neutral international control, like some big religious theme park (bit like Harry Potter world).
 
Gutter Boy said:
Israel's logic of holding Gaza, West Bank and Golan has always/only been to give them defendable borders - mountains, rivers and to keep their cities a distance from borders. There was no mistake. And no intention ever to relinquish them.
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That's Putin's argument for invading Ukraine.
It's understandable why they did it in the first. They've had over 50 years to show some concessions in the Sinei and undo the land grab. Yes the Arab community rejected the West's original plan. Israel then rejected it by it's military actions.
Giving back some of that land would be some a level of humanity. Instead Israel continue to dehumanise those in Gaza. So it's not a surprise they've created a community that votes in Hamas and undertakes violent action.
 
monkeybarry said:
Israel were happy to cut Gaza off and cause suffering to anyone there on the sole basis that they were on that piece of land. That was as (in) discriminate as what Hamas did - just one seems more "socially acceptable" to the West.
The international community turned a blind eye to the above.

Hamas have a complete disregard for human life based in Israel. Israel have a complete disregard for human life based in Gaza. Both are utterly despicable. Israel's disregard for human life has come back on them ten fold. As has half of the world's for not recognising Palestine as a state and for not I. Stopping Israel increasing its settlement and II. Continuing to allow Israel to treat Gaza as it has and not do something about the incursion into the Sinei in '67

Should probably just make "the promised land" under neutral international control, like some big religious theme park (bit like Harry Potter world).
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All Hamas has to do to get the borders open is to recognise Israel's right to exist, and stop all violence against Israel on its part.

Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Don't forget that Egypt is every bit as in control of the blockade as Israel is. They're not letting people or goods through either.
 
monkeybarry said:
That's Putin's argument for invading Ukraine.
It's understandable why they did it in the first. They've had over 50 years to show some concessions in the Sinei and undo the land grab. Yes the Arab community rejected the West's original plan. Israel then rejected it by it's military actions.
Giving back some of that land would be some a level of humanity. Instead Israel continue to dehumanise those in Gaza. So it's not a surprise they've created a community that votes in Hamas and undertakes violent action.
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Ukraine wasn't raping, killing and kidnapping Russian civilians.
 
scaramanga said:
All Hamas has to do to get the borders open is to recognise Israel's right to exist, and stop all violence against Israel on its part.

Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Don't forget that Egypt is every bit as in control of the blockade as Israel is. They're not letting people or goods through either.
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This predates Hamas by a long way, and is exactly what I said. Why would Gaza accept the atrocities delivered unto it by Israel in Gaza and by its historic and ongoing land grabs? Israel isn't prepared to stop it's violence and oppression, so why would Hamas? Violence isn't just guns and bombs, it's also actions and inactions.
This is a situation Israel has exasperated.

Egypt has one border. Israel had six (I think) and has caused the issues. Egypt isn't oppressing Gaza, Israel is. Israel is creating a situation that forces Egypts hand. Egypt is not every bit as in control as Israel.
 
Harvard is getting a lot of heat for not condemning the attacks, or their own students who appear to be blaming Israel for the attacks. Quite something when a university is scared of its own students.
 
scaramanga said:
All Hamas has to do to get the borders open is to recognise Israel's right to exist, and stop all violence against Israel on its part.

Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Don't forget that Egypt is every bit as in control of the blockade as Israel is. They're not letting people or goods through either.
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What about the settlements and gradual colonisation of West Bank? Until Israel retreats to 1967 borders (in exchange for appropriate security guarantees), this isn't going anywhere
 
monkeybarry said:
Neither were Egypt, Jordan etc to Israel, so what's your point.
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Egypt and Jordan lost land to Israel during a war in which they were entirely complicit.

That's a fairly predictable result of war - I wouldn't say this case stands out in that regard.
 
monkeybarry said:
This predates Hamas by a long way, and is exactly what I said. Why would Gaza accept the atrocities delivered unto it by Israel in Gaza and by its historic and ongoing land grabs? Israel isn't prepared to stop it's violence and oppression, so why would Hamas? Violence isn't just guns and bombs, it's also actions and inactions.
This is a situation Israel has exasperated.

Egypt has one border. Israel had six (I think) and has caused the issues. Egypt isn't oppressing Gaza, Israel is. Israel is creating a situation that forces Egypts hand. Egypt is not every bit as in control as Israel.
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This does predate Hamas (or at least their control of Gaza) - there were ongoing discussions with Fatah that could have lead to peace.

That was one of the reasons Hamas was able to take power - those animals that wish only to see the destruction of Israel were not willing to see a peace process begin. So they voted for Hamas, Hamas refused to agree to terms and so the blockade became permanent.

Egypt has the opportunity to open their borders to people and trade from Gaza if they wish. But they don't, because Egyptians don't want terrorists in Egypt any more than anyone else wants them in their country.
 
Gutter Boy said:
What about the settlements and gradual colonisation of West Bank? Until Israel retreats to 1967 borders (in exchange for appropriate security guarantees), this isn't going anywhere
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That won't work, because there are too many who will not stop until Israel ceases to exist (Iran included).

Israel will be a lot safer when it is surrounded by mountains and sea. Peace is possible at that point.
 
monkeybarry said:
Israel were happy to cut Gaza off and cause suffering to anyone there on the sole basis that they were on that piece of land. That was as (in) discriminate as what Hamas did - just one seems more "socially acceptable" to the West.
The international community turned a blind eye to the above.

Hamas have a complete disregard for human life based in Israel. Israel have a complete disregard for human life based in Gaza. Both are utterly despicable. Israel's disregard for human life has come back on them ten fold. As has half of the world's for not recognising Palestine as a state and for not I. Stopping Israel increasing its settlement and II. Continuing to allow Israel to treat Gaza as it has and not do something about the incursion into the Sinei in '67

Should probably just make "the promised land" under neutral international control, like some big religious theme park (bit like Harry Potter world).
Click to expand...

You could look at it in another way: country A doesn’t have to provide services to country B. Granted Gaza is not fully autonomous, and is under Israel’s control but it wants to be an independent state. Can you imagine supplying Germany with power and water as it bombed the UK? It’s not a completely fair analogy but it is a different way of viewing things. Gaza does have its own power plant but relies on Isreal. Yet if someone hates you and kills your people, you should sort them out anyway? I think they actually should but you can see why a democratic Israeli government don’t sort Gaza out with these services as their population have had 1000 people murdered.
 
scaramanga said:
That won't work, because there are too many who will not stop until Israel ceases to exist (Iran included).

Israel will be a lot safer when it is surrounded by mountains and sea. Peace is possible at that point.
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So they'll need to expel 5 million people into Jordan, like Azerbajan just did with the Armenians, but 40 times the scale?
 
scaramanga said:
This does predate Hamas (or at least their control of Gaza) - there were ongoing discussions with Fatah that could have lead to peace.

That was one of the reasons Hamas was able to take power - those animals that wish only to see the destruction of Israel were not willing to see a peace process begin. So they voted for Hamas, Hamas refused to agree to terms and so the blockade became permanent.

Egypt has the opportunity to open their borders to people and trade from Gaza if they wish. But they don't, because Egyptians don't want terrorists in Egypt any more than anyone else wants them in their country.
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Just as funding plays a huge part in political parties in the west, so it does with Hamas being funded by Iran. As well as the immediate conflict there are proxy wars going on too. You could say Isreal and Gaza are fighting out US-Iranian conflicts. Each ibacked by huge powers, and whenever proxy conflicts occur, it raises the stakes and things become more deadly.

Egypt doesn’t want to open up to Gaza because they fear Gaza will become its problem. It was Egyptian land in the 1960s but they don’t want the strife - hotbed of Islamist movements. They have enough of that to contend with already in the Sinai. The Muslim brotherhood in Egypt isn’t as brotherly as their name suggests! And a problem for whoever runs Egypt. So Egypt doesn’t want Gaza. Isreal doesn’t want Gaza, and Gaza can’t rule itself.

Without Irans backing of Hamas I think Isreal would have been able to fund more development in Gaza and helped to progress Gazas infrastructure, so it might evolve into a fully separate state. But now Isreal has to react to the atrocities and rockets and will destroy any bridges and development - which was probably too slow and too little anyway.

That is my take but happy to be corrected.
 
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Does anyone know why Palestine’s two territory’s are the Gaza Strip and West Bank and why they are disconnected from one another?

Was it once connected then cut off by Israeli occupation?
 

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scaramanga said:
It is interesting to see a little of the nutjob end of the political spectrum from time to time.

Worth noting that the bunch of student activists behind that site have made plenty of statements that fit the generally recognised definition of anti-Semitic.
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I’m guessing they compared Israel to fascism or Nazisim. Which of course you can’t do even though they have self described fascists working in their government (Ben Gvir).
 
Craig_J said:
Does anyone know why Palestine’s two territory’s are the Gaza Strip and West Bank and why they are disconnected from one another?

Was it once connected then cut off by Israeli occupation?
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It's because there's no such country as Palestine. It doesn't have regions or borders, it's just a term used to loosely refer to areas - like the Amazon or the Sahara.
 
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