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Ryan Mason

DTA said:
In fairness you didnt like Dembele either, if i remember correctly?

I havent seen wanyama much but from what i have seen he seems to have quality
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Dembele always had talent, just a major intelligence/decision-making issue. Poch has fixed this, which was something I never thought possible (considering good managers like van Gaal and Advocaat never managed it)

Wanyama's issues are that he's immobile and can't pass for toffee. I'm not sure even Poch could improve his energy levels and basic technique as dramatically as they would need to be.
 
Vega said:
Sit in front of the back 4, dont give our attacking players room, distribute the ball to those with more technical ability when required.

He absolutely did what was required of him.
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Absolutely.... I'm not sure what GB was basing his opinion on in his last post - can you clarify GB?... Were you appraising him as a potential Dembele instead of a potential Dier perhaps? - but from what I saw yesterday he would be the perfect deep midfielder in Poch's preferred system.
 
Vega said:
Sit in front of the back 4, dont give our attacking players room, distribute the ball to those with more technical ability when required.

He absolutely did what was required of him.
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How often do we spend games sat on the edge of our box soaking up pressure?

Wanyama suits a team that plays without possession, not a possession side like us. He's not about high energy pressing or quick fluid passing and moving.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Absolutely.... I'm not sure what GB was basing his opinion on in his last post - can you clarify GB?... Were you appraising him as a potential Dembele instead of a potential Dier perhaps? - but from what I saw yesterday he would be the perfect deep midfielder in Poch's preferred system.
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Dier is far more mobile and uses the ball much better

The only thing Dier and Wanyama share is their size
 
Gutter Boy said:
How often do we spend games sat on the edge of our box soaking up pressure?

Wanyama suits a team that plays without possession, not a possession side like us. He's not about high energy pressing or quick fluid passing and moving.
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I never said i wanted us to sign him! Just because someone has a good game doesnt mean we should, hell Shane Long was great yesterday but i dont think he would take us to another level.

I just appreciated what Wanyama does for his team and how his abilities allow others to show theirs.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Dembele always had talent, just a major intelligence/decision-making issue. Poch has fixed this, which was something I never thought possible (considering good managers like van Gaal and Advocaat never managed it)

Wanyama's issues are that he's immobile and can't pass for toffee. I'm not sure even Poch could improve his energy levels and basic technique as dramatically as they would need to be.
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Again, I disagree with you here. Dembele has pretty much always carried out his manager's instructions. He played a different way under AVB compared to Pochettino, but I think that was simply due to AVB's safety first, don't ever lose the ball approach.

The energy level comment is a strange one. I don't think a player in that position in our team has to cover a huge amount of ground. If you look at yesterday's game we had over 70% of possession but we actually looked less and less threatening as the game went on, with Wanyama being a big part of Southampton's excellent defensive shape. I would argue that Wanyama is just as mobile as Dier and is just as good a passer as Dier. I thought Wanyama's distribution yesterday was very good, kept the ball moving, got them going forward to break quickly and certainly didn't engage in the sort of pointless phases of passing that Capoue used to specialise in (and that you always seemed to love?).
 
Gutter Boy said:
How often do we spend games sat on the edge of our box soaking up pressure?

Wanyama suits a team that plays without possession, not a possession side like us. He's not about high energy pressing or quick fluid passing and moving.
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Southampton rarely play that way either - it's only when up against big dominating teams that they are forced to defend deep, like most teams outside the top 4/5 - as a back up option for us a player able to play that role would be quite handy imo and would probably have helped us hold on to a few of the leads we have let slip late in games when opposition throw caution to the wind. could also be vital in games in the Champions League next season.

also Southampton under Pochettino were all about high energy and quick passing and it's arguably when Wanyama was most highly thought of
 
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I think Wanyama would make a good edition and I think he will get more athletic and leaner under Poch....

Not forgetting he tore it up in Champions League with Celtic, well he was excellent anyway
 
Gutter Boy said:
How often do we spend games sat on the edge of our box soaking up pressure?

Wanyama suits a team that plays without possession, not a possession side like us. He's not about high energy pressing or quick fluid passing and moving.
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Perhaps that is why we have lost so many leads this season? I have seen us drop back and try to defend a lead a few times having dominated the game earlier (recently it has happened against Arsenal at home, WBA at home and Chelsea away) We haven't managed to close the game out in any of those games. Maybe a player like Wanyama would help us do this?

Irrespective of whether you consider Wanyama inferior/superior to Dier currently, surely you cannot agree that if Dier isn't available then we do not have a single player in the squad who can play the same type of game that Dier does? With that in mind then surely you would agree that we need an extra option in the squad to cover that position? If not Wanyama then who would you suggest?
 
Finney Is Back said:
Perhaps that is why we have lost so many leads this season? I have seen us drop back and try to defend a lead a few times having dominated the game earlier (recently it has happened against Arsenal at home, WBA at home and Chelsea away) We haven't managed to close the game out in any of those games. Maybe a player like Wanyama would help us do this?

Irrespective of whether you consider Wanyama inferior/superior to Dier currently, surely you cannot agree that if Dier isn't available then we do not have a single player in the squad who can play the same type of game that Dier does? With that in mind then surely you would agree that we need an extra option in the squad to cover that position? If not Wanyama then who would you suggest?
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I still think Bentaleb is closer to Dier in skill set/suitability for our system than Wanyama is. He'd be my choice for that role next season.
 
tynesidespur said:
Compare him to Dembele and he appears to get run over physically. He was ok yesterday, did some nice things with the ball but when he turns over possession he doesn't appear to have the physical attributes to get back into position to win it back quickly. That's why Southampton got turned and in at our back 4 a few times. I agree he might be better higher up.
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I guess it is not totally fair to compare him to Dembele for certain aspects of the CM role. Dembele is a bit of a freak in terms of ball winning, but besides that particular trait Mason does not possess the defensive gene in my opinion. His positioning is a little off and his desire to get back and help out is not really as good when compared to either of the Dier/Dembele combo. He has something to his game from an attacking perspective so I think he would indeed be better deployed further up the pitch.
 
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Gutter Boy said:
I still think Bentaleb is closer to Dier in skill set/suitability for our system than Wanyama is. He'd be my choice for that role next season.
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I completely disagree with you here. Bentaleb does not have the positional awareness nor the discipline to play Dier's role. Of course both of these things can be taught, but the player has to WANT to play a defensive game, be prepared to keep things simple, be prepared to sacrifice any attacking instincts or desire to look good on the pitch to keep the shape of the team. From what I have seen of Bentaleb, he wants to play the game further up the pitch, his first instinct is to attack and not defend, which is the opposite of Dier (and also Wanyama).
 
Finney Is Back said:
I completely disagree with you here. Bentaleb does not have the positional awareness nor the discipline to play Dier's role. Of course both of these things can be taught, but the player has to WANT to play a defensive game, be prepared to keep things simple, be prepared to sacrifice any attacking instincts or desire to look good on the pitch to keep the shape of the team. From what I have seen of Bentaleb, he wants to play the game further up the pitch, his first instinct is to attack and not defend, which is the opposite of Dier (and also Wanyama).
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Yet Bentaleb's best ever performance for us was in defence. I think the positional side can quite easily and quickly be coached into him, because he's an intelligent player. It's just a shame he lost this season to make those developmental steps.
 
Rorschach said:
I guess it is not totally fair to compare him to Dembele for certain aspects of the CM role. Dembele is a bit of a freak in terms of ball winning, but besides that particular trait Mason does not possess the defensive gene in my opinion. His positioning is a little off and his desire to get back and help out is not really as good when compared to either of the Dier/Dembele combo. He has something to his game from an attacking perspective so I think he would indeed be better deployed further up the pitch.
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Agreed. Only problem for Mason is that we have plenty of players ahead of him for those attacking positions.

Mason strikes me as a good old fashion attacking central midfielder, but in a game where at the very top players increasingly need additional aspects to their game both physical and technical, he just doesn't have that in his locker.
 
To get Spurs to the next level Mason will have to be compared to the best we have and also the best money can buy to improve the squad. Thats the harsh reality with Spurs now.

We would traditionally spend 40-50m a summer give or take, add Champions League and TV money and that could be upwards of 100m without it even making a dent this summer. With no real glaring need for first X1 changes the new signings made can afford to be Marque and that includes Def Midfield.

For that reason I think Mason will need to either improve 10 fold this summer or make way.
 
Rorschach said:
I guess it is not totally fair to compare him to Dembele for certain aspects of the CM role. Dembele is a bit of a freak in terms of ball winning, but besides that particular trait Mason does not possess the defensive gene in my opinion. His positioning is a little off and his desire to get back and help out is not really as good when compared to either of the Dier/Dembele combo. He has something to his game from an attacking perspective so I think he would indeed be better deployed further up the pitch.
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Yes, like missing glorious chances. He used to score before, but now he seems unable to convert, no matter how good a chance he's presented too. Must have lost his shooting boots or something.
 
Grays_1890 said:
To get Spurs to the next level Mason will have to be compared to the best we have and also the best money can buy to improve the squad. Thats the harsh reality with Spurs now.

We would traditionally spend 40-50m a summer give or take, add Champions League and TV money and that could be upwards of 100m without it even making a dent this summer. With no real glaring need for first X1 changes the new signings made can afford to be Marque and that includes Def Midfield.

For that reason I think Mason will need to either improve 10 fold this summer or make way.
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that's way off where we have been the last few years - we rarely spend much more than we recoup and whilst i think we can/will do so when the right opportunity presents itself i think you're giving yourself false hope if you are thinking any of those figures.
 
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