Redknapp Vs AVB vs Jol

[The Moonlit Knight]

Which, in the end, has always contributed to his situations. Totally 'open' question here in the spirit of discussion. Why is it, you think, that Redknapp has never stuck around anywhere longer than 3-4 seasons bar West Ham? I personally think he often knows when the moment has come to get out. Interested in your thoughts.

Your perception I would guess. Redknapp is one of the more stable managers around when a club hires him. His longest managerial reign was Bournemouth if I remember correctly, and he left Portsmouth on political grounds but when you actually take how long he was there for he was there for a while. He was our longest serving Premiership Manager. You are alluding to the fact that because he only sticks around 3 or 4 seasons (which I believe to be factually incorrect anyway) that there is something wrong with him. But in reality, he tends to stay in his jobs longer than most managers and he has been a professional manager for 30 years so he must be doing something right.

Just to bring this into perspective from our Premiership era and the managers.

Redknapp : 6 clubs over 30 years
AVB : 4 clubs over 4 years
Ramos : 15 clubs over 23 years
Jol : 8 clubs over 22 years
Hoddle : 5 clubs over 15 years
Graham : 4 clubs over 19 years
Gross : 6 clubs over 25 years
Francis : 6 clubs over 18 years

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Sorry for stepping in on your dance but can I offer an answer. I was talking to a Blackpool supporting mate earlier in the week about Holloway. He thought that Olly left them at the right time because his motivational techniques were beginning to get diminishing returns.

I think that there are so many times that you can motivate someone to lift their performance. I think that this is true of Redknapp which would also explain why he has such a high turnover of players.

He didn't have a high turnover of players at Spurs after transfer window number one. As has been pointed elsewhere when he left, a lot of the players in our team were ones that had been there before he arrived. What Redknapp did (or tried to do with the limited funds available) was tweak the squad and first team where he could. AVB is performing a major overhaul. I am not surprised by this, simply because AVB is trying to implement a new system and style of play and a lot of the previous players don't fit into that system. My biggest fear is that I think I know what system AVB wants to play. And we are still 4 or 5 first team players off of playing it. He plays 442 this year and we have a great chance. He won't.

 

[onlyme]

No one has said that. AVB has assembled the best Premiership Tottenham squad ever for this season, and that is already a fantastic achievement. Finishing 5th last season was on par.

There is also no doubt in my mind that he has more ability than Redknapp or Jol. But that means nothing unless he actually delivers. If AVB finishes 3rd then he'll be our best ever Premiership Manager IMO.

It was above par. Our best ever total points. Best ever away record.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

It was above par. Our best ever total points. Best ever away record.

So you think Everton and /or Liverpool had a better team than us and should have finished above us?

 

[onlyme]

So you think Everton and /or Liverpool had a better team than us and should have finished above us?

That went over my head.

We had our best ever EPL season so obviously it was above par. Curiously we should have won both our away games against the Scousers and done even better. But that was not AVB's fault.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

That went over my head.

We had our best ever EPL season so obviously it was above par. Curiously we should have won both our away games against the Scousers and done even better. But that was not AVB's fault.

Let me make the criteria obvious for you. Par isn't points, or wins, draws or defeats. My interpretation of par is where you finish in the table, relative to the ability levels of the opposition. I felt last season we were potentially the 4th/5th best team (there really is little to choose between ourselves and Arsenal) so finishing 4th/5th is on par, i.e. where I'd expect us to finish. Finishing 3rd would have been above par. Finishing 6th, below par.

I don't care about points. I care about where we finish. If I was offered the choice right now of finishing 3rd with 10pts LESS than we got last season or us breaking our points total again this season but finishing 5th? I'd take less points, better league position every single time.

For the record, par for me this season is a comfortable 4th. That may change once the transfer window shuts in September, dependant on who Arsenal sign and who we sell/sign. I can't see us finishing above City or Chelsea, but Utd are potentially catchable this season.

Also for the record I think we'll see the top six amass more points between them this season than in recent seasons, and I wouldn't be shocked if we did finish 6th and broke our year end points total yet again.

 

[onlyme]

Let me make the criteria obvious for you. Par isn't points, or wins, draws or defeats. My interpretation of par is where you finish in the table, relative to the ability levels of the opposition. I felt last season we were potentially the 4th/5th best team (there really is little to choose between ourselves and Arsenal) so finishing 4th/5th is on par, i.e. where I'd expect us to finish. Finishing 3rd would have been above par. Finishing 6th, below par.

I don't care about points. I care about where we finish. If I was offered the choice right now of finishing 3rd with 10pts LESS than we got last season or us breaking our points total again this season but finishing 5th? I'd take less points, better league position every single time.

For the record, par for me this season is a comfortable 4th. That may change once the transfer window shuts in September, dependant on who Arsenal sign and who we sell/sign. I can't see us finishing above City or Chelsea, but Utd are potentially catchable this season.

Also for the record I think we'll see the top six amass more points between them this season than in recent seasons, and I wouldn't be shocked if we did finish 6th and broke our year end points total yet again.

Your logic is unique.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Your logic is unique.

I've noticed a trend with you. You are highly critical of other people's opinions, but never actually venture forth your own predictions.

What teams do you think are currently better than us in the Premiership, and where do you think we should finish this season?

Also you state my logic is unique. I stated that I'd rather finish 3rd with less points than amassed last season, than finish 5th with more points amassed. Do you think I am in the minority with that? Do you think most Spurs fans would rather finish 5th with more points than last season? Would YOU rather we finished 5th under that scenario?

 

[onlyme]

Completely the opposite of the truth. I have said on numerous occasions on this site (and even had a discussion with you about it) that we are currently in top 3 form and all we had to do was stay in the same form to guarantee top 4. I have also stated many times on here that we should challenge for the title with a new striker.

I don't care enough to be highly critical of anybody's opinion here.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Completely the opposite of the truth. I have said on numerous occasions on this site (and even had a discussion with you about it) that we are currently in top 3 form and all we had to do was stay in the same form to guarantee top 4. I have also stated many times on here that we should challenge for the title with a new striker.

Season hasn't started yet, so how can you say we are exhibiting top three form?

So your belief is to be on par this season, is top three? If we fail to get top three then we have been below par?

I'd like an answer to this too please. Also you state my logic is unique. I stated that I'd rather finish 3rd with less points than amassed last season, than finish 5th with more points amassed. Do you think I am in the minority with that? Do you think most Spurs fans would rather finish 5th with more points than last season? Would YOU rather we finished 5th under that scenario?

 

[onlyme]

Season hasn't started yet, so how can you say we are exhibiting top three form?

So your belief is to be on par this season, is top three? If we fail to get top three then we have been below par?

I'd like an answer to this too please. Also you state my logic is unique. I stated that I'd rather finish 3rd with less points than amassed last season, than finish 5th with more points amassed. Do you think I am in the minority with that? Do you think most Spurs fans would rather finish 5th with more points than last season? Would YOU rather we finished 5th under that scenario?[/QUOTE]

What do you think?

We have already discussed the form thing.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

I don't know what to think. I presented my opinion, and you said it was unique. Therefore it would be logical to conclude you feel that I am wrong, and the most people would disagree with me. So unless you were just trolling, your reply suggested that you disagreed with me and that 5th with a record points total is better than finishing 3rd with less points than your record points total.

And yes we have discussed form, and from those discussions it adds weight to my assumption in the above paragraph. To you level of opposition and other factors do not matter. All that matters is the points accrued, not the manner in which they were accrued or whether they were against harder/easier teams.

So my overall conclusion is you care more about points totals than position finishes.

 

[onlyme]

I don't know what to think. I presented my opinion, and you said it was unique. Therefore it would be logical to conclude you feel that I am wrong, and the most people would disagree with me. So unless you were just trolling, your reply suggested that you disagreed with me and that 5th with a record points total is better than finishing 3rd with less points than your record points total.

And yes we have discussed form, and from those discussions it adds weight to my assumption in the above paragraph. To you level of opposition and other factors do not matter. All that matters is the points accrued, not the manner in which they were accrued or whether they were against harder/easier teams.

So my overall conclusion is you care more about points totals than position finishes.

Well, then your conclusion is incorrect and please do not accuse me of trolling just because I disagree with you.

If we improve our points total this season I will be very happy. I expect a significant increase if we keep up our current form and a record breaker if we improve our form.

Spurs have little control about other team's points totals except by beating them!

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Well, then your conclusion is incorrect and please do not accuse me of trolling just because I disagree with you.

If we improve our points total this season I will be very happy. I expect a significant increase if we keep up our current form and a record breaker if we improve our form.

Spurs have little control about other team's points totals except by beating them!

So you WERE trolling. Because you did NOT disagree with me and therefore were being facetious for the sake of it. So now we've established what you are, I suggest that we avoid each other in the future because basically I have zero time for you.

 

[onlyme]

Your logic is unique.

Goodbye.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I've noticed a trend with you. You are highly critical of other people's opinions, but never actually venture forth your own predictions.

What teams do you think are currently better than us in the Premiership, and where do you think we should finish this season?

Also you state my logic is unique. I stated that I'd rather finish 3rd with less points than amassed last season, than finish 5th with more points amassed. Do you think I am in the minority with that? Do you think most Spurs fans would rather finish 5th with more points than last season? Would YOU rather we finished 5th under that scenario?

You should have seen some of his "logic" defending Adebayor last season.

 

[onlyme]

You should have seen some of his "logic" defending Adebayor last season.

Were you pleased with Ade's form in the last couple of games of the season?

 

[Jurgen the German]

Were you pleased with Ade's form in the last couple of games of the season?

Last couple of games? Yeah. Over the whole season? Absolutely not and I cannot see how any Spurs fan could have been happy with his performances and lack of goals.

 

[onlyme]

Last couple of games? Yeah. Over the whole season? Absolutely not and I cannot see how any Spurs fan could have been happy with his performances and lack of goals.

You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. Ade was first choice striker in our record beating team last season.

 

[Jurgen the German]

You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. Ade was first choice striker in our record beating team last season.

Well, I would say the majority of Spurs fans would say we finished 5th in spite of him, not because of him. We would have been even higher if we had better strikers. Bale's goals covered up a lot of cracks in the forwards department.