Ratings vs QPR

[Spur of the moment]

My point exactly. We didnt attack that often and when Lennon did it was from deep. It really didnt hurt the opposition and we created diddly squat.

It was one of several SUPERB runs and crosses by Lennon that led to the corner that in turn led to the own goal that in turn helped us seize back the initiative and ultimately the match.

That's a tad more than diddly squat in my book.

 

[SubZero]

Corluka was a liability. Imagine if Dawson can't get a game - he most likely wouldn't even make the extended matchday squad.

Walker has been largerly indifferent this season along with most of our players - very few stands out so far bar Vertonghen, Defoe and Lennon to a degree. We are far from flying, mind you.

Tell me - how many goals has Walker cost us this season?

Pacy players got the better of him a couple of times, but to call him a liability is very harsh. He made the best of what he got, plus that he was totally unselfish in his play and never tried to be a hero. He was sound positionally, and most importantly very rarely misjudged when to go forward and when to stay behind. This is for me most evident by how Lennon is brought into the game, we won't the very best of him in front of offensively inclined full-backs, Walker and most evidently Glen Johnson.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

I think some people jumped on the Walker bandwagon a little too early last year. Watch im closely next time he plays. People slag Walcott off on here, but Walker is an even less talented version of him. Plenty of straight line speed... and that is it! He has very little technique at all and watching him try to go past a player is embarrassing. His defensive positioning is non-existent and going forward he tends to take up Lennon's space.

 

[ArcspacE]

Corluka was never a liability. Opposing players very rarely got the better of him 1v1 (despite his supposed lack of pace) and his positioning was excellent.

Walker has been involved in several goals conceded this season already. http://windycoys.blogspot.co.uk/

'Supposed' lack of pace? Wow, the revisionism on here is remarkable at times.

He was an average player at best who put in a couple of good through-balls for Lennon. Became increasingly found out with each passing month as opposing players and managers figured out how to play against him. Arry was many things but 90% of the time played the strongest 11 (often to detriment of our rotation 'philosophy'). And in the end went to the mighty Russian League.

The above link if anything demonstrates how Brad and Dembele were considerably at fault for the goal

I ask again - if Walker is this disaster of a defender in your eyes - how many goal has he cost us this season?

 

[SubZero]

And in the end went to the mighty Russian League.

To be fair, so did Samuel Eto'o.

 

[zin]

Brad - 7
Walker - 4 (guys makes me angry)
Gallas - 6
Verthongen - 8
Bale - 6
Sandro - 6
Dembele - 6
Lennon - 7
Sig - 5
Defoe - 6

Caulker - 6
Huddlestone - 6

Dempsey?

 

[zin]

Even though we won 2-1 the average rating for this game was the same as our opening day 2-1 defeat to Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

From the ratings it's clear central midfield is where we struggled, with Sigurdsson having a terrible game compared to the Reading win. Dembele and Sandro's performances dropped significantly since the Lazio game also.

Vertonghen was MOTM for the second game in a row.

 

[zin]

Some overall ratings for the players also:

 

[uksb]

'Supposed' lack of pace? Wow, the revisionism on here is remarkable sometimes

He was an average player at best who put in a couple of good through-balls for Lennon. Became increasingly found out with each passing month as opposing players and managers figured out how to play against him. Arry was many things but 90% of the time played the strongest 11 (often to detriment of our rotation 'philosophy'). And in the end went to the mighty Russian League.

The above link if anything demonstrates how Brad and Dembele were considerably at fault for the goal

I ask again - if Walker is this disaster of a defender in your eyes - how many goal has he cost us this season?

It's not revisionism, I've always rated Corluka. I said 'supposed lack of pace' because although he wasn't the quickest or most athletic, he wasn't as slow as some people suggested. His running style made him look slower than he was, ala Berbatov and Kanoute.

Corluka was sold because the management believed Walker had great potential. He came into the team and performed to a decent level from the start (relative to his experience). Corluka wasn't happy on the bench and we got a decent price for him.

But Walker hasn't really progressed. If you check the link I provided, there's an analysis of every goal we've conceded so far - not just the one against QPR (which Walker only played a small part in).

QPR - he along with Bale played Zarmora on side.
Reading - allowed Robson-Kanu to get away from him to score
West Brom - lost Morrison in the box
Saudi Sportswashing Machine - not the best clearing header, although not an easy one to make

So we've conceded 6 goals in the league, and Walker to varying degrees was involved in 4 of them.

 

[metalgear]

walker's the type of talent where you need to play him trying to contain his weaknesses, while exploiting his strengths to the fullest. the gains outweighs losses.

 

[ArcspacE]

It's not revisionism, I've always rated Corluka. I said 'supposed lack of pace' because although he wasn't the quickest or most athletic, he wasn't as slow as some people suggested. His running style made him look slower than he was, ala Berbatov and Kanoute.

Corluka was sold because the management believed Walker had great potential. He came into the team and performed to a decent level from the start (relative to his experience). Corluka wasn't happy on the bench and we got a decent price for him.

But Walker hasn't really progressed. If you check the link I provided, there's an analysis of every goal we've conceded so far - not just the one against QPR (which Walker only played a small part in).

QPR - he along with Bale played Zarmora on side.
Reading - allowed Robson-Kanu to get away from him to score
West Brom - lost Morrison in the box
Saudi Sportswashing Machine - not the best clearing header, although not an easy one to make

So we've conceded 6 goals in the league, and Walker to varying degrees was involved in 4 of them.

He was sold because he wasn't good enough

Walker still has great potential - are you seriously writing him off at the age of 21? :lol:

I think our indifferent form this season has altered your judgement slightly.


The link you provided is one man's personal opinion / observation. Below is mine


- QPR - 5-10% (Friedel/Dembele share the bulk for me)
- Reading - 20-30% (the goal started on our right-hand side)
- Norwich - 20% (watch Hudd observe Holt and do fudge all about it)
- West Brom - 50% fault - lost his man in the box
- Saudi Sportswashing Machine - no fault - if anything he did brilliantly to get a header - then Gallas should have closed Ba down


Is he really this catastrophe of a defender waiting to happen?

Have a look at these


Walker was on average dribbled 0.2 times per game this season (dribbled by 1 player)

Johnson - 1 time / game (dribbled by 5 players)
Rafael - 2 times / game (dribbled by 8 players)
Ivanovic - 0.8 times / game (dribbled by 4 players)


Walker - key passes per game - 1.8 (9 passes)

Johnson - 1.6 (8 passes)
Rafael - 1 (4 passes)
Ivanovic - 0.8 (4 passes)


Walker - assists to date - 1

Johnson - 0
Rafael - 0
Ivanovic - 0


Walker – successful crosses – 4/15 (27%)

Johnson – 4/16 (25%)
Rafael – 2/10 (20%)
Ivanovic – 2/19 (11%)


Walker – average passes per game – 52.8

Johnson – 52.4
Rafael -48.8
Ivanovic - 41.4


Walker – interceptions to date – 11

Johnson – 6
Rafael - 8
Ivanovic – 7


Walker - fouls committed to date – 0

Johnson – 4
Rafael – 4
Ivanovic - 3


Walker – offsides won – 2

Johnson – 1
Rafael – 0
Ivanovic – 1


Walker – clearances made – 23

Johnson – 16
Rafael – 18
Ivanovic -20


So – out of those 4 (4 of the PL’s finest one could argue)

- Walker is dribbled the least times by opponents

- Walker has the highest number of key passes per game

- Walker has the highest cross success rate

- Walker averages the most passes per game (well involved)

- Walker has the most interceptions

- Walker has committed the least fouls – ZERO

- Walker has won the most offsides

- Walker has made the most clearances

- He is also 21 and a full English international

- And is fudging Spurs


Don't let biased statistics on a message board detracted from the fact we have a very useful player with tremendous potential. If he played for Utd he'd be the media's cream-off by now and we’d wish he was one of ours

 

[spurspinter1]

walker's the type of talent where you need to play him trying to contain his weaknesses, while exploiting his strengths to the fullest. the gains outweighs losses.

The gains will only outway the losses once he regularly puts in threatening balls in to the box. It seems like at least 2/3 crosses a game either go straight to the fans behind the goal or float out for a throw in on the far side of the pitch, due to poor technique. One of our issues (with Defoe and Siggy playing) is a serious lack of predatory movment in the box so unfortunately there may not be a massive amount to aim at currently but to me it's about getting balls in to the dangerous areas to panic defences consistently.

 

[uksb]

He was sold because he wasn't good enough

Walker still has great potential - are you seriously writing him off at the age of 21? :lol:

I think our indifferent form this season has altered your judgement slightly.


The link you provided is one man's personal opinion / observation. Below is mine


- QPR - 5-10% (Friedel/Dembele share the bulk for me)
- Reading - 20-30% (the goal started on our right-hand side)
- Norwich - 20% (watch Hudd observe Holt and do fudge all about it)
- West Brom - 50% fault - lost his man in the box
- Saudi Sportswashing Machine - no fault - if anything he did brilliantly to get a header - then Gallas should have closed him down


Is he really this catastrophe of a defender waiting to happen?

Have a look at these


Walker was on average dribbled 0.2 times per game this season (dribbled by 1 player)

Johnson - 1 time / game (dribbled by 5 players)
Rafael - 2 times / game (dribbled by 8 players)
Ivanovic - 0.8 times / game (dribbled by 4 players)


Walker - key passes per game - 1.8 (9 passes)

Johnson - 1.6 (8 passes)
Rafael - 1 (4 passes)
Ivanovic - 0.8 (4 passes)


Walker - assists to date - 1

Johnson - 0
Rafael - 0
Ivanovic - 0


Walker – successful crosses – 4/15 (27%)

Johnson – 4/16 (25%)
Rafael – 2/10 (20%)
Ivanovic – 2/19 (11%)


Walker – average passes per game – 52.8

Johnson – 52.4
Rafael -48.8
Ivanovic - 41.4


Walker – interceptions to date – 11

Johnson – 6
Rafael - 8
Ivanovic – 7


Walker - fouls committed to date – 0

Johnson – 4
Rafael – 4
Ivanovic - 3


Walker – offsides won – 2

Johnson – 1
Rafael – 0
Ivanovic – 1


Walker – clearances made – 23

Johnson – 16
Rafael – 18
Ivanovic -20


So – out of those 4 (4 of the PL’s finest one could argue)

- Walker is dribbled the least times by opponents

- Walker has the highest number of key passes per game

- Walker has the highest cross success rate

- Walker averages the most passes per game (well involved)

- Walker has the most interceptions

- Walker has committed the least fouls – ZERO

- Walker has won the most offsides

- Walker has made the most clearances

- He is also 21 and a full English international

- And is fudging Spurs


Don't let biased statistics on a message board detracted from the fact we have a very useful player with tremendous potential. If he played for Utd he'd be the media's cream-off by now and we’d wish he was one of ours

Arc why when in a debate with someone do feel it necessary to put words in people's mouths? I never said I'd written off Walker, nor did I said he was a catastrophe waiting to happen.

And how ironic that you give me a bunch of biased statistics that don't relate to anything I've said, before telling me to ignore things I've read which do relate to my posts.

I don't think he's a very good defender, backed up by the fact he's been partly involved in the majority of goals we've conceded. And I don't think anyone would be 'creaming themselves' given that his reputation amongst Spurs fans seems to be decreasing every game.

 

[ArcspacE]

How are these statistics biased? They're factual and tell a good story

About 5-6 players were partly involved in all goals we've conceded - it's the nature of the game. Hardly ever is one single player at fault for a goal.

I didn't tell you to ingore the ratings either - simply advised not to let those influence your perception on players since we've been largerly indifferent this season hence the low marks.

And how exactly is his reputation amogst Spurs fans decreasing after each game - could you possibly explain that? If you're using the match-ratings on here - then most of the squad is going to brick!

I also think you you're still bummed Corluka left (mostly because of him) hence the bitter taste

 

[uksb]

How are these statistics biased? They're factual and tell a good story

About 5-6 players were partly involved in all goals we've conceded - it's the nature of the game. Hardly ever is one single player at fault for a goal.

I didn't tell you to ingore the ratings either - simply advised not to let those influence your perception on players since we've been largerly indifferent this season hence the low marks.

And how exactly is his reputation amogst Spurs fans decreasing after each game - could you possibly explain that? If you're using the match-ratings on here - then most of the squad is going to brick!

I also think you you're still bummed Corluka left (mostly because of him) hence the bitter taste

I was using your definition of biased which is apparently statistics that back up an argument.

Walker has been more heavily involved in goals conceded than any other player.

The Spurs fans I've talked to have become increasingly impatient with Walker, this is also echoed on twitter, other forums etc.

And I wouldn't say I'm still bummed Corluka left, although I do think that right now he's a better defender than Walker - by a considerable margain. But I can understand why he was sold given Walker's potential.

 

[Papercut]

Walker started off as a striker didn't he? Problem solved...

 

[ArcspacE]

I was using your definition of biased which is apparently statistics that back up an argument.

Walker has been more heavily involved in goals conceded than any other player.

The Spurs fans I've talked to have become increasingly impatient with Walker, this is also echoed on twitter, other forums etc.

And I wouldn't say I'm still bummed Corluka left, although I do think that right now he's a better defender than Walker - by a considerable margain. But I can understand why he was sold given Walker's potential.

Not on TFC it isn't - do you have any (biased) stats beyond that?

As for being involved in most goals - I'm afraid that is simply not true - again your strong dislike possibly taking the better of you. It's similar to suggesting Brad was involved in most of our goals hence being a poor keeper

 

[King of Norway]

A bit too late perhaps. I see that zin has been doing his stuff already. But still....

Friedel 7,5 - Two very good saves early on. Otherwise not that busy. Not at fault for the goal.

Walker 6,5 - I thought he did decent enough defensively. Lost out to Hoilett on one of the early QPR chances, but did a decent job one agaisnt one. On the ball he had two many misplaced passes.

Gallas 6,5 - An average performance. Fell asleep slightly on one occasion in the second half, but was saved by Vertonghen. Did okay otherwise.

Vertonghen 7,5 - Did okay in the first half at center back. Could have stayed tighter perhaps on Zamora on the goal, but I believe he thought he was playing Zamora offside and the main culpable was Bale (not Walker as others have suggested) who dropped deeper than than the rest of the defence. Excellent at left back in the second half. Played a big role in our second goal, and made several good runs up the left hand side. Good passing as well. Saving tackle on Hoilett.

Bale 6,5 - Very quiet in the first half, albeit playing out of position. In the second half he was always a threat on the counter, but I still feel he hasn't performed at his best level so far this season.

Lennon 7 - Our only player who looked a threat in the first half. MAde some good runs on the right side and put the ball into the box. More of the save in the second half really, but with slightly better end product.

Sandro 6 - Thought he had an off-day in this match. Lacked his normal energy defensively and didn't get close to players. On the ball he also made a few sloppy mistakes.

Dembele 6,5 - A fairly average performance this time. Didn't move the ball quickly enough and failed to instigate any creative attacking play. Deserves credit for winning possession before our second goal though.

Dempsey 5,5 - Thought he looekd very slow, sluggish and lost out on the left wing in the first half. Also had some poor involvements when on the ball. A bit better as a striker in the second half. Gave us a a slightly bigger physical presence there at least.

Sigurdsson 4,5 - Seems to be lacking confidence completely. Rarely shows for the ball, and when he does receive it, he looks insecure and usually ends up losing possession.

Defoe 7 - Difficult to rate. He scored the winning goal, and as a striker, you gotta give him credit for doing his job. Struggled to get involved in the first half though. In the second half he was a threat on the counter after our second goal. Could and shoudl have scored a second. I still don't think it is the right decision to play him as a lone striker in home games.


Caulker 7 - I thought he did well. A couple of poor headed clearences, but otherwise a solid defensive performance. Looks a threat on attacking set pieces which makes a nice change.

Huddlestone -

Townsend -

 

[zin]

That's fine I can add your scores and amend, I thought everyone was done but just realised it was a Sunday game!

 

[uksb]

Not on TFC it isn't - do you have any (biased) stats beyond that?

As for being involved in most goals - I'm afraid that is simply not true - again your strong dislike possibly taking the better of you. It's similar to suggesting Brad was involved in most of our goals hence being a poor keeper

He was involved in 4 out of 6 goals like I said to varying degrees. 4 out of 6 - most.

This is another mindset you seem to adopt, that if someone disagrees with you - then they must hate the player and have an alterior motive. Neither of which are the case.