Ratings - Rudderless v Ruddy &co (Norwich)

[spasm]

because till this day the fact that a fan actually wants his own team to lose to anyone p_isse_s me off to no end.

I do well not to respond to alot of the stuff that GB posts, but that one took the biscuit and i cant get over it. F_ucking annoying if i am totally honest.

And he is always the first guy to dig in when we lose, without fail.
My team is playing below par and plays badly...i am not happy and i know that i cannot or rather shouldnt come on here cause there is someone thats going to be the first on the post button who actually looks forward to our team losing.

you do reaslise he actually said that dont you?

edit:- thinking about it a bit more, if this happened a year and a half ago i probably wouldnt be as upset about it and define GB by that...but the mood i've been in recently plus other factors that i have to deal with on here doesnt help.

i'll be slinking off to my little corner again now for a while anyway

sorry to hear that. and i can understand your frustration.as i stated earlier, you are a sensible poster. don't let yourself be dragged into the gutter (pun fully intended)

 

[Kingdawson]

Lloris - 5

Naughton - 5
Vertonghen - 5
Dawson - 4
Rose - 5

Capoue - NA
Invisibilinho - 3.5
Benteleb - 4

Lennon - 5.5
Ade - 5
Dembele - 4.5


Subs

Ghastli - 3.5
Nogoaldado - 3
Townsend - 4.5

 

[Gutter Boy]

because till this day the fact that a fan actually wants his own team to lose to anyone p_isse_s me off to no end.

I do well not to respond to alot of the stuff that GB posts, but that one took the biscuit and i cant get over it. F_ucking annoying if i am totally honest.

And he is always the first guy to dig in when we lose, without fail.
My team is playing below par and plays badly...i am not happy and i know that i cannot or rather shouldnt come on here cause there is someone thats going to be the first on the post button who actually looks forward to our team losing.

you do reaslise he actually said that dont you?

edit:- thinking about it a bit more, if this happened a year and a half ago i probably wouldnt be as upset about it and define GB by that...but the mood i've been in recently plus other factors that i have to deal with on here doesnt help.

i'll be slinking off to my little corner again now for a while anyway

Initiating change can be painful.

I genuinely believe the path to success is no CL + LvG cf CL + Timmeh, so I'm for whatever it takes to make that happen - I believe the ends justify the means. We're not going to get relegated, so there's little to lose. We'll stay 5th-7th, like we've been for almost every season for the past decade (our average position is 6.2). Rip off the sticking plaster and let a surgeon at our wounds.

Have you seriously never wanted a manager who you've felt is wholly detrimental to the club (Graham or Neill for instance) to lose that one final game that you know will be the straw that breaks the camels back?

 

[Superhudd]

Lloris - 5 - abysmal distribution.

Naughton - 6 - defended decently, put in one or two crosses too.
Dawson - 5 - not great
Vertonghen - also not great
Rose - 5 can't defend or attack really.

Lennon - 3 - spent the game stood next to other spurs players, one can only assume that he's a bit lonely
Paulinho - 4 - not at the races today, didn't look like he was putting in the effort
Bentaleb - 3 - was abysmal defensively, and stood next to Norwich players whenever we had the ball
Dembele - 5 - best of a bad bunch
Capoue - n/a

Adebayor - 5.5 - ran about, put the legwork in, but didn't get the service first half, and fluffed the clear chance he did get.


Chadli - 6 - did well, held the ball up and linked up decently. My Motm.
Soldado - 4.5 - can't hit the a barn door with an Uzi.
Townsend - n/a not on long enough.

Baffling team selection by timmeh, with Norwich getting the result they deserved.

I agree, if we were going to score it seemed like it was going to come from or through him, don't get the hate for him considering the others performance. It seems people have already made up there minds though.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I agree, if we were going to score it seemed like it was going to come from or through him, don't get the hate for him considering the others performance. It seems people have already made up there minds though.

Agree. I don't think yesterday was one of his best, but he's a tidy player who never gives the ball away and has creativity in him.

In the right system (or in a system) I think he could still flourish.

 

[thfcsteff]

Probably a common denominator here. As you might remember I've been defending Ade quite a bit, I think people read way too much into body language and he got a lot of stick last season for being a lazy bastard despite working fairly hard. I also defended Berbatov quite a bit, he was a bit lazy at times for sure, but his languid body language wasn't a problem for me.

Whatever leadership it is Dawson brings to the team I'm not sure it's quite having the desired effect. Like I said I think Vertonghen would make sure he didn't have to go through that again if it was his responsibility. We've seen games like this come, go and pass us by time and time again over the years and some of the players that have been here a while seem unable to change that.

Vertonghen looked disgusted with some of the performances put in by some of his team mates, I'm not sure that's a bad thing.

You know my feelings on Ade have been consistently similar for a long time too mate. So we're together on that one.

I don't trust Verts. I wish I could, but coupled with a few isolated incidents of simply not covering last season, I've seen a little too much for me to fully trust his commitment to us. It's on me I know, but I cannot escape the fact that he is starting to come across as one of the arrogant Dutch players of the Van persie mould...

 

[Daisuk]

Lloris - 6 - didn't do much wrong, had a couple of good saves.
Rose - 3 - horrible. Can't cross for his life, poor stamina, poor positioning, poor tackling. I sure wish our left-back was BAE.
Verthongen - 6 - has quite a few good tackles, but his body language is so incredibly poor. Take some ****ing responsibility, man, show that you're a grown up and one of the best in our team. His attitude ****ing stinks.
Dawson - 4 - lord knows I love you, Daws, but you're just not good enough.
Naughton - 5 - below par, as usual.
Paulinho - 4 - where the hell were you? Poor passing, poor handling of the ball, no movement.
Dembele - 6 - did OK in the second half, had some initiatives and showed some will, at least.
Bentaleb - 5 - looked tired. Definitely not our worst, but should've been rested.
Chadli - 4 - sorry, mate, you're just not good enough. Got a decent cross, but what does that matter if you don't have speed or skill to get to any good crossing positions?
Lennon - 4 - can't cross for his life, like a lot of the other lads, didn't look like he was even trying at times.
Adebayor - 6 - did his best as a lone striker, and did a lot better when Solly came on. Can't believe we didn't start with Soldado and Eriksen in this one.

Poor displays all around, not enough movement, no guts, no will to win, we looked tired. Rose was just absolute shambles. He doesn't contribute with anything offensively, and defensively he's a constant liability.

 

[braineclipse]

You know my feelings on Ade have been consistently similar for a long time too mate. So we're together on that one.

I don't trust Verts. I wish I could, but coupled with a few isolated incidents of simply not covering last season, I've seen a little too much for me to fully trust his commitment to us. It's on me I know, but I cannot escape the fact that he is starting to come across as one of the arrogant Dutch players of the Van persie mould...

Saying that we can't fit one of those "arrogant Dutch players" into our squad is to me like declaring that we won't succeed.

Let's become the English Athletic Bilbao, but instead of limiting ourselves to players of Basque upbringing let's limit ourselves to signing nice guys, preferably those that aren't good enough for the top clubs so they won't get their heads turned. (I'm aware that this part is way hyperbolic btw )

How important is "full commitment to us"? If a not fully committed player performs better than an inferior, but fully committed player I know which one I would chose every time. Was Modric fully committed to us in his final season after trying to force his move to Chelsea? His attitude was top notch I always thought, but I don't see how you could possibly think that he was fully committed?

Let's become a club where "arrogant Dutch players" (very tentatively accepting that description for the sake of argument) can come and get the success they strive for instead. They might be arrogant, but as long as they're arrogant because they're very good players is that a bad thing?

I wish Soldado had some of Vertonghen's arrogance right now (if that is what Vertonghen is), I wish Soldado would go out on the pitch knowing that he's better than the rest instead of feeling like he has to prove that he is as good as the rest.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Saying that we can't fit one of those "arrogant Dutch players" into our squad is to me like declaring that we won't succeed.

Let's become the English Athletic Bilbao, but instead of limiting ourselves to players of Basque upbringing let's limit ourselves to signing nice guys, preferably those that aren't good enough for the top clubs so they won't get their heads turned. (I'm aware that this part is way hyperbolic btw )

How important is "full commitment to us"? If a not fully committed player performs better than an inferior, but fully committed player I know which one I would chose every time. Was Modric fully committed to us in his final season after trying to force his move to Chelsea? His attitude was top notch I always thought, but I don't see how you could possibly think that he was fully committed?

Let's become a club where "arrogant Dutch players" (very tentatively accepting that description for the sake of argument) can come and get the success they strive for instead. They might be arrogant, but as long as they're arrogant because they're very good players is that a bad thing?

I wish Soldado had some of Vertonghen's arrogance right now (if that is what Vertonghen is), I wish Soldado would go out on the pitch knowing that he's better than the rest instead of feeling like he has to prove that he is as good as the rest.

That so sums us up for about the last 20-25 years.

Someone in the game once commented on how our scouts just go for nice middle class kids from Hertfordshire (cough Kane, cough Carroll), whereas Arsenal used to pick up hungry working class kids from inner city estates.

I think it's fantastic to have real good guys like Dawson, King, Mabbutt etc. But within reason it's certainly not a problem having aloof, nonchalant players like Verts or Berbatov. Let's not forget that the greatest player in our history (Hoddle) was one of the biggest **** out there. My favourite type though is Lloris - cold, steely determination.

 

[braineclipse]

That so sums us up for about the last 20-25 years.

Someone in the game once commented on how our scouts just go for nice middle class kids from Hertfordshire (cough Kane, cough Carroll), whereas Arsenal used to pick up hungry working class kids from inner city estates.

I think it's fantastic to have real good guys like Dawson, King, Mabbutt etc. But within reason it's certainly not a problem having aloof, nonchalant players like Verts or Berbatov. Let's not forget that the greatest player in our history (Hoddle) was one of the biggest **** out there. My favourite type though is Lloris - cold, steely determination.

Spot on, you need a mix of characters. I like the word aloof, I should start using it more.

We need a few more bastards too, in addition to the aloofness. Ekotto had a nasty streak in him, although he was generally very disciplined. Sandro's tough talk on the net aimed at Charlie Adam is amusing, but when we actually meet them I wouldn't expect him to do anything about it even if Adam pulls one of his trade mark studs on metatarsal tackles on Eriksen. Had Huddlestone been around though I would have expected him to get a bit nasty.

Of the current crop Bentaleb seems to have some dirty tricks in him, the rest are all seem very polite when tackling at least most of the time.

 

[spasm]

Spot on, you need a mix of characters. I like the word aloof, I should start using it more.

We need a few more bastards too, in addition to the aloofness. Ekotto had a nasty streak in him, although he was generally very disciplined. Sandro's tough talk on the net aimed at Charlie Adam is amusing, but when we actually meet them I wouldn't expect him to do anything about it even if Adam pulls one of his trade mark studs on metatarsal tackles on Eriksen. Had Huddlestone been around though I would have expected him to get a bit nasty.

Of the current crop Bentaleb seems to have some dirty tricks in him, the rest are all seem very polite when tackling at least most of the time.

made me

 

[thfcsteff]

That so sums us up for about the last 20-25 years.

Someone in the game once commented on how our scouts just go for nice middle class kids from Hertfordshire (cough Kane, cough Carroll), whereas Arsenal used to pick up hungry working class kids from inner city estates.

I think it's fantastic to have real good guys like Dawson, King, Mabbutt etc. But within reason it's certainly not a problem having aloof, nonchalant players like Verts or Berbatov. Let's not forget that the greatest player in our history (Hoddle) was one of the biggest **** out there. My favourite type though is Lloris - cold, steely determination.

You will need to explain this. Thoroughly please with some supportive evidence of universal agreement to such a statement...

 

[Sandman]

Agree. I don't think yesterday was one of his best, but he's a tidy player who never gives the ball away and has creativity in him.

In the right system (or in a system) I think he could still flourish.

Well I suppose someone has to have faith in him. I dont and I think many others dont either. I could take the abject level he has played this season IF he showed flashes of a the player we want him to be. But his stable diet is to receive the ball and then just lay it off. I would like to know where you saw this so called creativity. He never beats a man and just does an easy pass. That is tidy but not creative. When he did get a chance to score he hit it straight at the keeper. Was a woeful shot. At least when Townsend is on he gets opposition players back tracking and scared due to his pace. Even with his stupid shots it pushes them back and opens space for others. Chadli is too slow and a one trick pony. They just push up tight on him and he lays it off.

 

[Kingdawson]

Agree. I don't think yesterday was one of his best, but he's a tidy player who never gives the ball away and has creativity in him.

In the right system (or in a system) I think he could still flourish.

He didn't flourish in avb's system and he's not flourishing now.

 

[metalgear]

worst game I've seen in years

all 4 except for lennon, ade, loris 6 for effort

 

[Kingdawson]

The crazy thing is we should have won that game, despite playing ****e. Ade, Nogoaldado and Ghastli all fluffed easy chances and we restricted Norwich to 1 good opening the whole game (Van Wolfswinkel early on).

 

[thfcsteff]

Spot on, you need a mix of characters. I like the word aloof, I should start using it more.

We need a few more bastards too, in addition to the aloofness. Ekotto had a nasty streak in him, although he was generally very disciplined. Sandro's tough talk on the net aimed at Charlie Adam is amusing, but when we actually meet them I wouldn't expect him to do anything about it even if Adam pulls one of his trade mark studs on metatarsal tackles on Eriksen. Had Huddlestone been around though I would have expected him to get a bit nasty.

Of the current crop Bentaleb seems to have some dirty tricks in him, the rest are all seem very polite when tackling at least most of the time.

The biggest problem I have with how you mistook my thoughts on Verts perceived arrogance (on my part!) is that you have chosen to suggest that all arrogance is the same.
I have no problem whatsoever with a touch of arrogance and, indeed, flair/confidence/whatever you want to call it. My BIG problem with Vertonghen right now, is that his arrogance and ****ty attitude are NOT being partnered with displays that illustrate a clear elevation of class. Instead, he is switching off and playing like an ordinary footballer at best.

You went on to assert that I only want 'nice boys' which is, frankly, rubbish and suggests to me that you don't actually gauge what my criticism of Verts (and Dembele to an extent)is. There is a clear, clear difference between having some 'edge' and 'arrogance' and failing to apply yourself fully because you think you're above it. You raised the Modric season (let's not go there again, Mamic, etc, was done to death) and I'll reply that I am alarmed you could even question the level of his commitment! His displays for us were excellent. He was always there, never hid and kept on producing.

You asked if 'arrogance because they know they're very good players is a bad thing?' No. Absolutely not. But it is, for me, UNFORGIVABLE when that player is NOT giving their best and playing at their natural level. My personal perception of Verts is that he is not giving his best and is moaning a lot about others.

No problem with disagreements as you know, but please do understand what my gripe is mate.

p.s. I would argue that the arrogant Dutch players I referred to under-achieved because of it. Robben is a different player these days due to the coaches he's had recently/maturity. Schneider should not be in Turkey he's wasted. Look at Ronaldo! Arrogance personified but the man delivers and pushes himself to heights. Anyway...

 

[milo]

Initiating change can be painful.

I genuinely believe the path to success is no CL + LvG cf CL + Timmeh, so I'm for whatever it takes to make that happen - I believe the ends justify the means. We're not going to get relegated, so there's little to lose. We'll stay 5th-7th, like we've been for almost every season for the past decade (our average position is 6.2). Rip off the sticking plaster and let a surgeon at our wounds.

Have you seriously never wanted a manager who you've felt is wholly detrimental to the club (Graham or Neill for instance) to lose that one final game that you know will be the straw that breaks the camels back?

I don't understand your zealotism. You are not going to change anything by spouting off on a message board and I think that by ignoring or dismissing anything that contradict your views you undermine the good points that you make.