Ratings - Rudderless v Ruddy &co (Norwich)

[Kingdawson]

Nogoaldado is now officially a joke. You know it's bad when you find yourself celebrating a shot on target from him.

 

[indianspur]

Chadli :lol: oh my GHod

 

[Spur of the moment]

Lloris 6 - not at fault for their goal, not really tested otherwise, poor distribution once again
Naughton 5 - produced little going forward, just about passed muster defensively
Dawson 2 - have long been a stout defender of Daws but this display was atrocious, he needs a complete break URGENTLY
Vertonghen 4 - you sense he feels he's too good for this lot and that's why he's currently so s**t
Rose 4 - specialist in arsing about
Capoue n/a
Bentaleb 4 - seems to have lost his way so the mistakes and ****-ups are becoming all too frequent
Dembele 4 - totally unrecognisable from the player who first joined us from Fulham
Paulinho 3 - in danger of proving a Brazilian really can be worse than Gilberto
Lennon 6 - one Spur who at least looked as though he cared, except he too disappeared for much of the second half
Adebayor 4 - poor control/hold-up play typified the overall team performance

Subs
Chadli 4 - two-thirds of the way through the season and we're still waiting to discover the player he is supposed to be
Soldado 4 - the nightmare goes on and on and on and on and ...
Townsend 5 - provided just a glimpse of the spark we could have done with from the start

 

[Robspur12]

Lloris - 6 - He's hanging in despite obviously getting unhappy. Agree with the poor distribution comment above

Naughton - 5 - was OK, pretty solid overall, offered next to nothing going forward.

Dawson - 5 - a typical game for him these days, typified by another roaring gallop to win a ball in the other half which bounced over his head like a Ripping Yarns sketch.

Vertonghen 3 - disgraceful today. Awful, ****ty attitude, looked disinterested, gonad*ing others all the time, passing responsibility, a terrible day from someone who is so talented.

Rose - 3 - awful. For those pinging Bentaleb for losing the ball on the halfway line by the dugouts, watch the goal unfold. Rose is trotting back STARING AT SNODGRASSES' BACK watching him get into position for the pass before realizing that he should perhaps think of getting back to cover him. Lazy, stupid defending. A constant liability on that side. The sooner we replace, the better.

Lennon - 6 - did not hide. Always looked for the ball, tried to make things happen especially first-half. Productivity limited but gets 6 for effort from me, including covering for Rose a couple of times (figure that one out LOL)!!!

Paulinho - 5 - I genuinely think he's lost in games like this as he looks unaware of how he can best affect the game.

Bentaleb - 6 - forget losing the ball on the halfway line and watching half a ****ing side FAIL to snuff out the ball before the goal, he was often the only man between collapse and possession. He never hid.

Dembele - 3 - ****e. Sell him in the summer. If he was THAT good then he would be at a Man Utd. This is PRECISELY the sort of game he should be running; instead, his arrogance and petulance was on display for all to see once more. What a MASSIVE disappointment!

Capoue - another we should shift on in the summer

Adebayor - 6 - didn't hide, put in a shift, always looking to try and make things happen, one-legged man in an **** kicking contest.


Chadli - 3 - Go away. Not good enough. A light-weight who's afraid to ruffle his barnet with a challenge.

Soldado - 5 - the quality is there, the confidence is shot. I feel sorry for him.

I can't dance with any of that. Tim should also get a roasting for today. Out fought and out thought just not good enough and what was up with bringing on eriksen?

 

[thfcsteff]

I can't dance with any of that. Tim should also get a roasting for today. Out fought and out thought just not good enough and what was up with bringing on eriksen?

i think i perhaps overreacted a tad, but today was enormously disappointing simply because half of them didn't try/weren't mentally prepared. I think the likes of Dembele really show their **** in these games; the TOP players make sure they get the job done somehow...!!!!!

 

[braineclipse]

Lloris - 6 - He's hanging in despite obviously getting unhappy. Agree with the poor distribution comment above

Naughton - 5 - was OK, pretty solid overall, offered next to nothing going forward.

Dawson - 5 - a typical game for him these days, typified by another roaring gallop to win a ball in the other half which bounced over his head like a Ripping Yarns sketch.

Vertonghen 3 - disgraceful today. Awful, ****ty attitude, looked disinterested, gonad*ing others all the time, passing responsibility, a terrible day from someone who is so talented.

Rose - 3 - awful. For those pinging Bentaleb for losing the ball on the halfway line by the dugouts, watch the goal unfold. Rose is trotting back STARING AT SNODGRASSES' BACK watching him get into position for the pass before realizing that he should perhaps think of getting back to cover him. Lazy, stupid defending. A constant liability on that side. The sooner we replace, the better.

Lennon - 6 - did not hide. Always looked for the ball, tried to make things happen especially first-half. Productivity limited but gets 6 for effort from me, including covering for Rose a couple of times (figure that one out LOL)!!!

Paulinho - 5 - I genuinely think he's lost in games like this as he looks unaware of how he can best affect the game.

Bentaleb - 6 - forget losing the ball on the halfway line and watching half a ****ing side FAIL to snuff out the ball before the goal, he was often the only man between collapse and possession. He never hid.

Dembele - 3 - ****e. Sell him in the summer. If he was THAT good then he would be at a Man Utd. This is PRECISELY the sort of game he should be running; instead, his arrogance and petulance was on display for all to see once more. What a MASSIVE disappointment!

Capoue - another we should shift on in the summer

Adebayor - 6 - didn't hide, put in a shift, always looking to try and make things happen, one-legged man in an **** kicking contest.


Chadli - 3 - Go away. Not good enough. A light-weight who's afraid to ruffle his barnet with a challenge.

Soldado - 5 - the quality is there, the confidence is shot. I feel sorry for him.

Disagree about Vertonghen and Dembele. You see petulance in Dembele's reaction, I see frustration and a real desire to do well. Dembele was at around his average amount of passes today, most of them in the opposing half, made 3 tackles and it was him releasing Chadli for the one on one. I don't think he hid, he was being himself.

Both Vertonghen and Dembele were visibly frustrated. As was I. Any player not frustrated with that performance should take a long hard look at themselves. The effort wasn't there, the ability wasn't on show.

Which of our players did you feel reacted in a good way?

 

[thfcsteff]

Disagree about Vertonghen and Dembele. You see petulance in Dembele's reaction, I see frustration and a real desire to do well. Dembele was at around his average amount of passes today, most of them in the opposing half, made 3 tackles and it was him releasing Chadli for the one on one. I don't think he hid, he was being himself.

Both Vertonghen and Dembele were visibly frustrated. As was I. Any player not frustrated with that performance should take a long hard look at themselves. The effort wasn't there, the ability wasn't on show.

Which of our players did you feel reacted in a good way?

We agree to disagree. Frustration is absolutely fine. Petulance, lack of leadership and whinging when you yourself are not performing up to standard is not. Those are two very very important players, yet rather than lead, they shrink away and complain. Dembele can do much more.

'Reacted in a good way'…what does that mean mate? I'm not being obtuse, I don't understand. I outlined who I thought did not hide and tried to make things happen. I'd like to understand the thrust of your question to give you a better answer...

 

[Mulletperm]

Lloris - 6

Naughton - 5
Dawson - 4
Vertonghen - 3
Rose - 4

Lennon - 5
Bentaleb - 5
Capoue - 3
Paulinho - 4
Dembele - 4

Adebayor - 5

Subs:
Chadli - 3
Townsend - 4
Soldado - 5

 

[braineclipse]

We agree to disagree. Frustration is absolutely fine. Petulance, lack of leadership and whinging when you yourself are not performing up to standard is not. Those are two very very important players, yet rather than lead, they shrink away and complain. Dembele can do much more.

'Reacted in a good way'…what does that mean mate? I'm not being obtuse, I don't understand. I outlined who I thought did not hide and tried to make things happen. I'd like to understand the thrust of your question to give you a better answer...

We were struggling, we weren't performing. Who reacted in a way that was likely to help turn that around?

If anything I would like Vertonghen to get even more upset. Instead of frustratedly walking away in despair, speak out.

Which were the reactions Dembele made that upset you? The main one that sticks out in my mind was the booking. A reaction to what I thought was a poor refereeing decisions as he was trying to win the ball, as he was running, charging down, doing what more players should be doing.

 

[Rossi22]

We were struggling, we weren't performing. Who reacted in a way that was likely to help turn that around?

If anything I would like Vertonghen to get even more upset. Instead of frustratedly walking away in despair, speak out.

Which were the reactions Dembele made that upset you? The main one that sticks out in my mind was the booking. A reaction to what I thought was a poor refereeing decisions as he was trying to win the ball, as he was running, charging down, doing what more players should be doing.

I agree. Even when things aren't going well you at least want to see some passion and effort, I saw that in Dembele. Vertonghen on the otherhand just shrugged and looks as though he can't wait for the summer.

 

[Rorschach]

I agree. Even when things aren't going well you at least want to see some passion and effort, I saw that in Dembele. Vertonghen on the otherhand just shrugged and looks as though he can't wait for the summer.

That's what I saw too. Dembele was trying hard and looked like he cared, though he wasn't really effective. He did have a few good moemnts mind, but Vertoghen didn't care. For all his plaudits Vertoghen has been fairly ****e of late and he's not even hiding his apparent disgust at playing with all these losers.

When things are not going right on the pitch the absolute minimum you must do is match your opponent for effort. We had too many players out there who didn't give 100% and that is unforgivable in my mind. Vertoghen is one of those IMO. He's already on the boat.

 

[thfcsteff]

I just think Dembele is capable of lifting games like that and providing moments of inspiration if he applies himself. If he prepares to the maximum. If he focusses. He has possibly the best shot from distance in the side, yet rarely puts himself in the position to try one, as a 'playmaker' he simply doesn't move the game on quickly enough and as a presence on the pitch he is hugely effective in the middle third but nowhere else. I appreciate that Capoue's injury compromised his attacking thrust slightly, but for me, he simply does not do enough for a man of his talent, and once again today, against a side who were there to be beasted, he could not seem to find the next gear to affect the game. Either I'm wrong and he hasn't got it, or he's immature and loses focus when it isn't going his way. That's what I saw anyhow, I appreciate that one man's view is not another's...

 

[thfcsteff]

We were struggling, we weren't performing. Who reacted in a way that was likely to help turn that around?

If anything I would like Vertonghen to get even more upset. Instead of frustratedly walking away in despair, speak out.

Which were the reactions Dembele made that upset you? The main one that sticks out in my mind was the booking. A reaction to what I thought was a poor refereeing decisions as he was trying to win the ball, as he was running, charging down, doing what more players should be doing.

Controversially, I will say that for a 19 year old, Bentaleb was ALWAYS available for a pass and aways seemed to be trying to push us forwards/pick up the pace with short passing at speed. He should not be who we're relying on. Paulinho genuinely looked lost, as if he did not know where he figured, Chadli was a ****ing tart and I've shared my thoughts on Mousa. Further, I thought Lennon tried to inject some verve in the first half, but alas, it was largely a shower today wasn't it? And at those times, I look to my star players, my proven internationals, to step up and provide something. I used to think Verts was skipper material; not now. Unless he's playing with an injury, there' no excuse IMO. Daws is not playing well whatsoever, but at least the man tries...

 

[braineclipse]

Controversially, I will say that for a 19 year old, Bentaleb was ALWAYS available for a pass and aways seemed to be trying to push us forwards/pick up the pace with short passing at speed. He should not be who we're relying on. Paulinho genuinely looked lost, as if he did not know where he figured, Chadli was a ****ing tart and I've shared my thoughts on Mousa. Further, I thought Lennon tried to inject some verve in the first half, but alas, it was largely a shower today wasn't it? And at those times, I look to my star players, my proven internationals, to step up and provide something. I used to think Verts was skipper material; not now. Unless he's playing with an injury, there' no excuse IMO. Daws is not playing well whatsoever, but at least the man tries...

Dawson as our skipper tries to do what exactly? Throw himself into blocks and duels, that does not a skipper make.

Vertonghen looked ****ed off to me, he looked like if it was his responsibility to get this bunch of players fired up to make sure we weren't this lacklustre again he would get it done. Mentioned it in another thread, but I would rather see Vertonghen than Dawson with the armband right now.

He looked like he cared to me, but like you say observations and opinions. He looked as frustrated as anyone. I think there are better ways for him to channel that frustration, but being frustrated with that performance is not a bad thing.

I agree that we can't keep turning to Bentaleb who had a mediocre game at best by the standards he's set for himself in the league I thought. We need our experienced senior players to step up and be counted. We have the French captain and former Lyon captain in our side, the former Ajax captain, the Togo captain. I wish some of these players that haven't been at the club that long would either take or be given more responsibility. I'm not sure I trust the senior players.

 

[thfcsteff]

Answers below mate in boldtype…
[
QUOTE=braineclipse;517266]Dawson as our skipper tries to do what exactly? Throw himself into blocks and duels, that does not a skipper make.

I trust you've seen my strong criticisms of his performances. I think at this point, it goes beyond stating that the way he's playing isn't good enough. he is a penalty box/sitting-deep defender, he has regressed with regards to having a sniff of high-line nous from whence he managed to get it together under AVB in those early-days. I agree, his organization isn't working, but I will never dispute the man's effort and vocal attempts to rouse others from slumber. Having said that, I'd replace him, absolutely.

Vertonghen looked ****ed off to me, he looked like if it was his responsibility to get this bunch of players fired up to make sure we weren't this lacklustre again he would get it done. Mentioned it in another thread, but I would rather see Vertonghen than Dawson with the armband right now.

To me, he is fast-becoming a fly-by-nighter who I do not trust.

He looked like he cared to me, but like you say observations and opinions. He looked as frustrated as anyone. I think there are better ways for him to channel that frustration, but being frustrated with that performance is not a bad thing.

I feel his methods of expression leave a lot to be desired. If Ade did a quarter of what he did mate, this board would explode in anger! I empathize with his having to line-up alongside Rose and Daws, but regardless...

I agree that we can't keep turning to Bentaleb who had a mediocre game at best by the standards he's set for himself in the league I thought. We need our experienced senior players to step up and be counted. We have the French captain and former Lyon captain in our side, the former Ajax captain, the Togo captain. I wish some of these players that haven't been at the club that long would either take or be given more responsibility. I'm not sure I trust the senior players.


I think we're in agreement here


[/QUOTE]

 

[Lilywhite]

Lloris: 6 - can't pass or throw for toffee but made a couple of good saves late on to at least prevent further embarrassment

Naughton: 6 - our best defender today, offers nothing in offense but was disciplined at his main task
Dawson: 5 - one of a few at fault for the goal. Misjudged a few simple balls that went his way
Vertonghen: 4 - I'm not a professional in psychology but his body language was ominous. Clearly nonplussed and his performance mirrored that
Rose: 5 - tries, but ultimately in vain cos he lacks quality

Capoue: n/a - went off early
Paulinho: 4 - luxury player who rarely justifies being one. Never shows for the ball so if he's not scoring he's pointless. Also partly at fault for Norwich's goal, lazy play
Bentaleb: 5 - don't wanna be too harsh cos he played most the game in a holding role that he clearly struggles at but was pretty poor and gave the ball away for their goal

Dembele: 4 - read Vertonghen; disgusting attitude. Also, just not as good as many of our fans think he is. Played a nice pass to Chadli and that was it with regards to his contribution
Lennon: 5 - thought Az was okay first half but he just seemed to hide for most of the second which isn't good enough for someone so experienced
Adebayor: 6 - barely serviced so can't be marked too low. Should have scored though

Chadli: 5 - meh, as is the norm for him
Soldado: 5 - missed yet another sitter (still just one goal from open play FFS) and his constant flicks peev me

Tim: 3 - awful team selection, and not bringing Eriksen on when 1-0 down was just ludicrous.

 

[spasm]

you should be happy no?

Tottenham lost after all under 'Timmeh'

your day should be made. Another nail in 'Timmeh''s coffin

i realise GB occasionally makes semi-insane statements. but being IMHO one of our more sensible posters, why post such comments AS?

 

[africanspurs]

i realise GB occasionally makes semi-insane statements. but being IMHO one of our more sensible posters, why post such comments AS?

because till this day the fact that a fan actually wants his own team to lose to anyone p_isse_s me off to no end.

I do well not to respond to alot of the stuff that GB posts, but that one took the biscuit and i cant get over it. F_ucking annoying if i am totally honest.

And he is always the first guy to dig in when we lose, without fail.
My team is playing below par and plays badly...i am not happy and i know that i cannot or rather shouldnt come on here cause there is someone thats going to be the first on the post button who actually looks forward to our team losing.

you do reaslise he actually said that dont you?

edit:- thinking about it a bit more, if this happened a year and a half ago i probably wouldnt be as upset about it and define GB by that...but the mood i've been in recently plus other factors that i have to deal with on here doesnt help.

i'll be slinking off to my little corner again now for a while anyway

 

[Mulletperm]

Dawson as our skipper tries to do what exactly? Throw himself into blocks and duels, that does not a skipper make.

Vertonghen looked ****ed off to me, he looked like if it was his responsibility to get this bunch of players fired up to make sure we weren't this lacklustre again he would get it done. Mentioned it in another thread, but I would rather see Vertonghen than Dawson with the armband right now.

He looked like he cared to me, but like you say observations and opinions. He looked as frustrated as anyone. I think there are better ways for him to channel that frustration, but being frustrated with that performance is not a bad thing.

I agree that we can't keep turning to Bentaleb who had a mediocre game at best by the standards he's set for himself in the league I thought. We need our experienced senior players to step up and be counted. We have the French captain and former Lyon captain in our side, the former Ajax captain, the Togo captain. I wish some of these players that haven't been at the club that long would either take or be given more responsibility. I'm not sure I trust the senior players.

I'm going to come out and say it. There's something about Vertonghen I don't like, and it's something I've felt for a while now. I really can't put my finger on it, but he has something about him.

 

[braineclipse]

Answers below mate in boldtype…
[
QUOTE=braineclipse;517266]Dawson as our skipper tries to do what exactly? Throw himself into blocks and duels, that does not a skipper make.

I trust you've seen my strong criticisms of his performances. I think at this point, it goes beyond stating that the way he's playing isn't good enough. he is a penalty box/sitting-deep defender, he has regressed with regards to having a sniff of high-line nous from whence he managed to get it together under AVB in those early-days. I agree, his organization isn't working, but I will never dispute the man's effort and vocal attempts to rouse others from slumber. Having said that, I'd replace him, absolutely.

Vertonghen looked ****ed off to me, he looked like if it was his responsibility to get this bunch of players fired up to make sure we weren't this lacklustre again he would get it done. Mentioned it in another thread, but I would rather see Vertonghen than Dawson with the armband right now.

To me, he is fast-becoming a fly-by-nighter who I do not trust.

He looked like he cared to me, but like you say observations and opinions. He looked as frustrated as anyone. I think there are better ways for him to channel that frustration, but being frustrated with that performance is not a bad thing.

I feel his methods of expression leave a lot to be desired. If Ade did a quarter of what he did mate, this board would explode in anger! I empathize with his having to line-up alongside Rose and Daws, but regardless...

I agree that we can't keep turning to Bentaleb who had a mediocre game at best by the standards he's set for himself in the league I thought. We need our experienced senior players to step up and be counted. We have the French captain and former Lyon captain in our side, the former Ajax captain, the Togo captain. I wish some of these players that haven't been at the club that long would either take or be given more responsibility. I'm not sure I trust the senior players.


I think we're in agreement here

Probably a common denominator here. As you might remember I've been defending Ade quite a bit, I think people read way too much into body language and he got a lot of stick last season for being a lazy bastard despite working fairly hard. I also defended Berbatov quite a bit, he was a bit lazy at times for sure, but his languid body language wasn't a problem for me.

Whatever leadership it is Dawson brings to the team I'm not sure it's quite having the desired effect. Like I said I think Vertonghen would make sure he didn't have to go through that again if it was his responsibility. We've seen games like this come, go and pass us by time and time again over the years and some of the players that have been here a while seem unable to change that.

Vertonghen looked disgusted with some of the performances put in by some of his team mates, I'm not sure that's a bad thing.