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Quacks & Pseudoscience

Yes. Awful. He was struck off for this. But it did not have an impact on the results

Yes his evidence was anecdotal but so is all the evidence on the other side. Every other study is anecdotal.

Why can't there by a vaxxed / non vaxxed study to proper ethical standards as they would do with any drug. It would put this to bed once and for all.

The study was flawed because of the small sample size and because he started with children who had autism. The results do not stand up to scrutiny and have not been replicated when others have tried.

All studies are not anecdotal. The whole point of clinical trials is to eliminate this as far as possible. There are hundreds of clinically sound trials that point to no link between vaccines and autism. I am not aware of a single one that points the other way.

There have been trials comparing MMR to a placebo. Here's one but the others are easy to find if you Google for them

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673686910445
 
Yes. Awful. He was struck off for this. But it did not have an impact on the results

Yes his evidence was anecdotal but so is all the evidence on the other side. Every other study is anecdotal.

Why can't there by a vaxxed / non vaxxed study to proper ethical standards as they would do with any drug. It would put this to bed once and for all.
I think you're confusing anecdotal evidence and retrospective trials. They're two very different things.

Anecdotal evidence is "My son was immunised and now he has autism, therefore vaccines cause autism"

A retrospective study uses real evidence, it's just not able to define some of the qualification terms ahead of time. When running over the longer term, they can also suffer from drop-outs, although that tends to over state effect rather than under state. An example would be "We've looked at the data from 1m people, some of whom have been vaccinated. There was no difference in autism rates between those vaccinated and those not"

Just so I'm perfectly clear here, there is no reliable evidence to show a link between vaccines and autism. There is a wealth of data, from all over the world, from independent and state-funded scientists, using all kinds of samples that show there is no link.
 
Yep but American Government had paid out $3 billion to the vaxtards and their damaged children. And there is much more to come.

You scientists told the the non-Vaxtards that MMR1 was safe. It wasn't. Even your scientist accept this now. Now all those non vaxtards are vaxtards

Millions of children of vaxtards are damaged. They think vaccines did this but you tell them they are vaxtards and it is just a coincidence.

And no, there has never been a double blind vaxxed / non vaxxed study.

Are all vaccines safe? I doubt it.
 
I'd imagine there's always some risk with any medicine, the question is whether the benefits outweigh it.

Yep but American Government had paid out $3 billion to the vaxtards and their damaged children.
That's since 1988, and covers a few thousand claims, out of presumably several million vaccinations in that time, which would suggest the danger to the recipient is far outweighed by the benefit.

From Wiki:
From 1988 until March 3, 2011, 5,636 claims relating to autism, and 8,119 non-autism claims, were made to the VICP. 2,620 of these claims, one autism-related, were compensated, with 4,463 non-autism and 814 autism claims dismissed; awards (including attorney's fees) totaled over $2 billion. The VICP also applies to claims for injuries suffered before 1988; there were 4,264 of these claims of which 1,189 were compensated with awards totaling $903 million.

You scientists told the the non-Vaxtards that MMR1 was safe. It wasn't. Even your scientist accept this now.
Can you post some information about that? I'm not sure what you mean by MMR1.
 
Can you post some information about that? I'm not sure what you mean by MMR1.

UK Government lying about MMR. Also references Sweden's, Japan's, Canada's and America's bad MMR vaccination experience

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1544592/Vaccine-officials-knew-about-MMR-risks.html

Brazil's disastrous MMR experience which confirms a link between measles-mumps-rubella vaccination and aseptic meningitis

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10707922

More disgusting because GSK knew the risks but rebranded the vaccine to mislead the Brazilians.
 
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UK Government lying about MMR. Also references Sweden's, Japan's, Canada's and America's bad MMR vaccination experience

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1544592/Vaccine-officials-knew-about-MMR-risks.html

Brazil's disastrous MMR experience which confirms a link between measles-mumps-rubella vaccination and aseptic meningitis

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10707922

More disgusting because GSK knew the risks but rebranded the vaccine to mislead the Brazilians.
Did you read the articles you linked to?

The first one had the following quote:
The spokesman added: "In 1992 the Committee on Safety of Medicine considered all of the evidence and concluded that the benefits of vaccinating with Urabe mumps strain vaccines still outweighed the risks."

The second one then describes (with a very small sample size and nothing yet replicated as far as I can see) a 1 in 14,000 risk.

That's lower than the risk rate for general anaesthetic - should we stop operating on people too?
 
I did.

The spokesman added: "In 1992 the Committee on Safety of Medicine considered all of the evidence and concluded that the benefits of vaccinating with Urabe mumps strain vaccines still outweighed the risks."

The same article has the following quote

"The MMR vaccine with the Urabe strain of mumps was first used in Britain in October 1988. It was blamed for the deaths of several children after being withdrawn by the Department of Health in September 1992."

So I guess we draw the conclusion that the death of a few vaxtards from vaccines is worth it for the Committee on Safety of Medicine (and you)

Your support for the use of an unsafe vaccine in Brazil is baffling.

GSK knew the risks. The vaccination had been withdrawn in UK, USA, Japan etc 5 years before. They rebranded it but it was the same vaccine. The link between between MMR vaccination and aseptic meningitis was known and established. It was not a small sample. 200,000 people. And the article accepts that the cases of aseptic meningitis was significantly under reported because it is Brazil's poorest province and that many people would not have had access to hospitals or that if they did seek assistance it was not reported.

Governments have covered up the risks of vaccination in the past and when the film Vaxxed provides evidence that they are doing it again. It is convincing and plausible.

Your dogmatic view that the Government or Big Pharma would never lie about the risks of vaccination (given their track record) seems naive (to me)
 
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I once pointed out to an anti-vaxxer that there have been so many studies done that show that there is no link that it is laughable. The response I got was, 'well you can't rely on clinical studies only'. EXCEPT YOUR ENTIRE fudging ARGUMENT CAME ABOUT BECAUSE OF ONE SINGLE CLINICAL STUDY WITH 12 fudging PEOPLE IN IT. A STUDY WHICH HAS SINCE BEEN SHOWN TO BE FLAWED AND WAS RUN BY THE MEDICAL EQUIVALENT OF DEL BOY fudging TROTTER, YOU ABSOLUTE COMPLETE AND UTTER BELL END.
 
I did.



The same article has the following quote

"The MMR vaccine with the Urabe strain of mumps was first used in Britain in October 1988. It was blamed for the deaths of several children after being withdrawn by the Department of Health in September 1992."

So I guess we draw the conclusion that the death of a few vaxtards from vaccines is worth it for the Committee on Safety of Medicine (and you)
Yes, of course. Do you know the death rates of those diseases we vaccinate against?

Any risk, and the risks are incredibly small, is massively outweighed by the benefits. That's what medicine is - a risk/benefit analysis.

Your support for the use of an unsafe vaccine in Brazil is baffling.
You're calling it unsafe. The professionals decided it was safer than not vaccinating and they were right.

GSK knew the risks. The vaccination had been withdrawn in UK, USA, Japan etc 5 years before. They rebranded it but it was the same vaccine. The link between between MMR vaccination and aseptic meningitis was known and established. It was not a small sample. 200,000 people. And the article accepts that the cases of aseptic meningitis was significantly under reported because it is Brazil's poorest province and that many people would not have had access to hospitals or that if they did seek assistance it was not reported.
The risk was better than the risk of not immunising. If you're worrying about a 1 in 14,000 risk, you really shouldn't be leaving the house.

The study you linked had a sample of 87 - sometimes that can be helpful, but it's a very, very small number on which to base a retrospective study. For that kind of work you'd usually want a sample in the thousands as you can't control for other effectors.

Governments have covered up the risks of vaccination in the past and when the film Vaxxed provides evidence that they are doing it again. It is convincing and plausible.
No they haven't, no it didn't and no it isn't.

The cover up nonsense has already been debunked in the last couple of pages, there is no evidence at all in that film.

Ask yourself why the so called whistleblower didn't appear in the film at any point.

Your dogmatic view that the Government or Big Pharma would never lie about the risks of vaccination (given their track record) seems naive (to me)
Seeing as there is no evidence so far that anyone has lied or covered anything up, why would one assume that they would? That would be a ridiculous stance that only a fool would take.

Anyway, it's not Big Pharma you need to worry about, it's the lizard men.
 
I once pointed out to an anti-vaxxer that there have been so many studies done that show that there is no link that it is laughable. The response I got was, 'well you can't rely on clinical studies only'. EXCEPT YOUR ENTIRE fudgeING ARGUMENT CAME ABOUT BECAUSE OF ONE SINGLE CLINICAL STUDY WITH 12 fudgeING PEOPLE IN IT. A STUDY WHICH HAS SINCE BEEN SHOWN TO BE FLAWED AND WAS RUN BY THE MEDICAL EQUIVALENT OF DEL BOY fudgeING TROTTER, YOU ABSOLUTE COMPLETE AND UTTER BELL END.

Hmmm. I am not sure vaxtards, as Scara calls people who don't agree with him on this issue, rely on the Wakefield study. I suspect that millions were very pro vaccine before they jabbed their kids which resulted in vaccine damage which in turn destroy both their kids lives and their families lives. They are angry when they are told it is a coincidence, they are angry when they are told it is just one of those things, they are angry that they are told that it is all for the herd immunity and they just got unlucky. But mostly they are angry when people tell them that there are no side effects to vaccines and they are completely safe. And if they want compensation they must wait over 10 years and put up with abuse from the medical establishment, big pharma and patronising wannabe scientists.
 
Hmmm. I am not sure vaxtards, as Scara calls people who don't agree with him on this issue, rely on the Wakefield study. I suspect that millions were very pro vaccine before they jabbed their kids which resulted in vaccine damage which in turn destroy both their kids lives and their families lives. They are angry when they are told it is a coincidence, they are angry when they are told it is just one of those things, they are angry that they are told that it is all for the herd immunity and they just got unlucky. But mostly they are angry when people tell them that there are no side effects to vaccines and they are completely safe. And if they want compensation they must wait over 10 years and put up with abuse from the medical establishment, big pharma and patronising wannabe scientists.
Because they're wrong!

They may as well blame vaccines for being blonde or left-handed for all the link there is
 
That's my term for people who believe in a link between MMR jabs and autism.

That would be me.

I believe this because autism is listed as an adverse effect in the MMR packaging.

And the American government has paid out compensation to people who are autistic because of the adverse effects of MMR

And my personal experience.

But I very much like your clever combination of vaxxed and retread to describe me
 
That would be me.

I believe this because autism is listed as an adverse effect in the MMR packaging.
Happen to have one to hand you can scan?

I've never seen a paper copy of the packaging, but none of the digital media suggests a link.

And the American government has paid out compensation to people who are autistic because of the adverse effects of MMR
That's clever wording there. Has the US Government ever paid out because an MMR vaccine caused autism, or have they paid out for other side effects to someone who also happens to have autism?

Please go ahead and list the cases, I'd be intrigued to read the detail.

And my personal experience.
What training have you had to make you an expert epidemiologist?

And what part of that training makes your opinion mean more than the combined knowledge of thousands of other experts?

When are you going to publish the results of your study?

But I very much like your clever combination of vaxxed and retread to describe me
You're welcome.

It's not my finest work, I'm particularly proud of Godtard - probably my best.
 
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