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Putin & Russia

Bullet said:
So are we just going to watch LIVE as Russia murder civilians and kill children and rape women for 2 or 3 weeks until there is almost nobody left and THEN step in to do something about it?

This is like watching a fight in a car park where one guy is lying unconscious on the floor whilst the other guy kicks and kicks and kicks him in the head... and we won't step in until we think he might die.
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There's a lot more killing going on elsewhere.
 
Just read that Facebook is deleting Russian posts about the war but allowing some Russian-hate posts instead.

Effectively weaponizing social media. Well we can expect east vs west social media developments and complications in the future.
 
metalgear said:
Just read that Facebook is deleting Russian posts about the war but allowing some Russian-hate posts instead.

Effectively weaponizing social media. Well we can expect east vs west social media developments and complications in the future.
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Yes, Russia is the aggressor.

If you don't like people saying nasty things on social media, don't invade other countries.
 
@SpurMeUp - you've got a business in Russia haven't you?

Are you still able to pay your staff etc? Have you had any pressure from customers or shareholders to move that business out of Russia?
 
scaramanga said:
@SpurMeUp - you've got a business in Russia haven't you?

Are you still able to pay your staff etc? Have you had any pressure from customers or shareholders to move that business out of Russia?
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No I don't have a business in Russia. :) I have a shareholding in a business located in London that used a handful of programmers who were working from home in Russia. I think a number have managed to leave. Apparently, one was interrogated on departure, and it wasn't easy getting out (checking his laptops, rejecting other passengers transit who were Russian nationals, he has a Tajikistan passport so got out etc). I think a lot of young people want out. The prospects for the young are not positive within Russia.
 
SpurMeUp said:
No I don't have a business in Russia. :) I have a shareholding in a business located in London that used a handful of programmers who were working from home in Russia. I think a number have managed to leave. Apparently, they were interrogated on departure, and it wasn't easy getting out (checking laptops, rejecting other passengers transit who were Russian nationals etc). I think a lot of young people now want out. The prospects for the young are not positive within Russia now.
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So those that remain can't continue working? Do you have much contact with them or are you just an investor?
 
scaramanga said:
So those that remain can't continue working? Do you have much contact with them or are you just an investor?
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I don't have contact with them myself. But I've been out to Russia numerous times. We won a contract from FIFA for the world cup, and was out in Moscow and St Petersburg numerous times in 2018 I think it was.

The fascinating thing is looking at these issues from both sides. There are two narratives. Two histories. When we invade a nation like Iraq it is always supported largely by our establishment, and the narrative within the media is mainly partisan. The history and details are important and are often used to support that invasion. When its another country who we are in opposition to, we don't consider the history and the details so much. But as the old saying goes, those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. So we should understand context and previous successes and failures. We should at least see things from both sides. And then take action accordingly.
 
SpurMeUp said:
I don't have contact with them myself. But I've been out to Russia numerous times. We won a contract from FIFA for the world cup, and was out in Moscow and St Petersburg numerous times in 2018 I think it was.

I think the fascinating thing is looking at these issues from both sides. There are two narratives. Two histories. When we invade a nation like Iraq it is always supported largely by the establishment, and the narrative is mainly partisan. The history and details are important and are often used to support that invasion. When its another country who we are in opposition to, we don't consider the history and the details so much. But as the old saying goes, those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. So we should understand context and previous successes and failures. We should at least see things from both sides. And then take action accordingly.
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There are not two sides to this.

There is the side where an independent, sovereign nation has been invaded by a hospital bombing, short man complex. The other side is brick just made up by Putin which sounds as convincing as when he tells us "Yeah, I definitely like the pussy me, I really love getting big, hard pussy down my throat, I mean.... oh fudge. Someone shoot that journalist."
 
scaramanga said:
There are not two sides to this.

There is the side where an independent, sovereign nation has been invaded by a hospital bombing, short man complex. The other side is brick just made up by Putin which sounds as convincing as when he tells us "Yeah, I definitely like the pussy me, I really love getting big, hard pussy down my throat, I mean.... oh fudge. Someone shoot that journalist."
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I don't have much time now. But I'll bash this out, maybe it will make for interesting reading this Friday afternoon.

It is up to you whether you bother considering history and detail. But it does exist and it does provide a fuller understanding from both sides. While none of the background legitimises Putin's actions, it is pretty fascinating to understand the (slightly underhand) interventions made by the US, with the EU complicit. This history has led us to where we are now. The previous article link I posted re. NATO expansion on Russia's doorstep in the New York Times from 1995 amazingly predicts where we are now.

This phone call in 2014 hints at a program of intervention from the US in Ukraine, undermining the pro-Russian democratically elected president and putting in their own guy.


The revolution in 2014 was financed, it wasn't the organic uprising our media portrayed. Behind the scenes, the US played its part likley funding right-wing fascist groups in Ukraine. During the Maiden Square protests which kick-started the revolution, the same bullets were found to have shot people on both sides. The snipers, evidence suggests part of these fascist groups, were purposely killing people on both sides to destabilise and bring about...regime change. At the time US politicians were backing up their funding with visits to Svoboda rallies, handing out cupcakes!

The lessons we can take from this and other recent conflicts? 1. If people were able to predict the problems we are having today, why didn't we take notice then? And 2. Nations trying to control and influence other nations' allegiances or regimes with military intervention never ends well.
 
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SpurMeUp said:
I don't have contact with them myself. But I've been out to Russia numerous times. We won a contract from FIFA for the world cup, and was out in Moscow and St Petersburg numerous times in 2018 I think it was.

The fascinating thing is looking at these issues from both sides. There are two narratives. Two histories. When we invade a nation like Iraq it is always supported largely by our establishment, and the narrative within the media is mainly partisan. The history and details are important and are often used to support that invasion. When its another country who we are in opposition to, we don't consider the history and the details so much. But as the old saying goes, those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. So we should understand context and previous successes and failures. We should at least see things from both sides. And then take action accordingly.
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An easier distinction is that the West doesn’t seek to Permanently occupy those nations nor wipe out their societies. But to give them a helping hand to organise themselves. Yea this offers commercial opportunities.

Russian foreign policy is all and possibly only about filling the pockets of a few.
 
scaramanga said:
There's a "your mum" joke in there somewhere....
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Yeh, you wouldn't want to tbh :)

But it is true, the West has a fair chunk of blame for this whole thing starting.
  • Has led Ukraine down the garden path with various ideas/promises.
  • Encouraged them that they will become part of the West (NATO/EU.)
  • Because this Ukraine has played hard-ball with Russia, unwilling to compromise with Russia on anything and basically taken a hard-line policy on everything.
    (All this has been happening since 2008, or earlier, and even more in 2013 prior to the 2014 protests)
You can see some of this evidenced with Ukraine's expectance of there being more support from the West, which in their eyes is lacking and seemingly not what may have been whispered in their ears.
Now all that is happening is that Ukraine is being broken by Russia because if Putin can't have a neutral Ukraine outside of NATO, then as sure as bears brick in the woods, he will not let NATO have it in a functional state.
 
Now using the UN as a place to issue veiled threats about chemical weapons which will 'cover Europe'.

We continue to appease Putin at our peril.
 
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