Crawley
Board Legend
I'm at work, but thanks.
-
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POLL - Thread merging - for or against?
- Thread starter SpursLodge
- Start date
I'm at work, but thanks.
Crawley
Board Legend
The mod in question asked that you show some respect in how you answer.........you were the one who said respect should be earned.
Why do we need to "earn" your respect when we are voluntarily modding this place?
Anyway...........did you read the responses after your temporary banning? A lot of constructive stuff I feel.
SpursLodge
Nicola Berti
ok
As the chap that started this thread I'd like to add my two pennies worth.
first off, this wasn't intended to be a mod bashing thread, I think they are like the refs of the forum world, essential to a good forum but hated by most people! The fact is they largely do a great job in difficult circumstances. What I wanted to do was create a thread that discussed the forums dynamics in an open and honest way and this thread seems to have achieved that (for better or worse)!
Currently 10 out of the 20 threads on the front page are over 20 pages. 8 out of the 20 have been there for at least 6 months and some much longer. I think this gives the forum a stale feel, someone made the analagy of a newspaper, if it has the same headline every day you'd stop buying it pretty quick and we currently have 8 out of 20 headlines the same every day.
My solution would be to move the mega threads to the classic section and essentially start again. If someone creates a thread about Lennon going back to Leeds and having an absolute blinder (fingers crossed) then let it run it's course, if he then has a stinker against Norwich on Wednesday and there's another Lennon thread about how poor his end product is then fine, let that run as well. OK they are both essentially about Lennon but they are discussing two different games and the leeds one will most likely disappear around the time that the new one takes off and anyone visiting the forum will be more inclined to participate as there would be new and current debate happening. Whereas if they visited and there was the same old "Lennon" thread, would they bother looking at it and participating? I doubt it, I know I wouldnt/havent.
of course, if two people start a thread about Lennon tearing Leeds a new one then they get merged, I don't think anyone is disputing that, I think the problem comes from over generalisation of threads, lets face it, it's a message board about a football club, we have 11 players, 1 manager, 1 stadium, a couple of main rivals and 3 or 4 trophies to discuss, we could create a thread for each one and be done with it but that would be very dull.
People have been saying that the wording of the options influenced the results, well maybe that's true a little but I think most people are smart enough to know that it was for/indifferent/against and the majority has spoken. The interesting thing for me is that this thread, over the last couple of days has created the best debate on this site and has made me want to check in and see what people think.
Lastly, the transfer sub-forum is a great idea, I'll be honest, I don't post in there much as I don't know half the players being discussed and I'm certainly not ITK so I can't start any discussions over there, it is a good place to go to see peoples opinions on who we are linked to and who other clubs are linked to and it keeps SN&V from being swamped with that stuff. I'm starting to think that maybe we are in need of a forum for "other clubs/games" this could be where we discuss Arsenal/Chelsea/Liverpool, there could be new threads for each team/game and for weekends like this there would be loads of great chat going on without cluttering up the Spurs board.
I just really hope that something changes, I've been visiting this site for the last 5 or 6 years I think and I've noticed that I've been coming here less and less lately, it would be a shame if it got to the point where I simply stopped coming all together, I'm sure none of you clowns would care or even notice ;-) but to me it would be like losing touch with an old school friend. Fingers crossed
As the chap that started this thread I'd like to add my two pennies worth.
first off, this wasn't intended to be a mod bashing thread, I think they are like the refs of the forum world, essential to a good forum but hated by most people! The fact is they largely do a great job in difficult circumstances. What I wanted to do was create a thread that discussed the forums dynamics in an open and honest way and this thread seems to have achieved that (for better or worse)!
Currently 10 out of the 20 threads on the front page are over 20 pages. 8 out of the 20 have been there for at least 6 months and some much longer. I think this gives the forum a stale feel, someone made the analagy of a newspaper, if it has the same headline every day you'd stop buying it pretty quick and we currently have 8 out of 20 headlines the same every day.
My solution would be to move the mega threads to the classic section and essentially start again. If someone creates a thread about Lennon going back to Leeds and having an absolute blinder (fingers crossed) then let it run it's course, if he then has a stinker against Norwich on Wednesday and there's another Lennon thread about how poor his end product is then fine, let that run as well. OK they are both essentially about Lennon but they are discussing two different games and the leeds one will most likely disappear around the time that the new one takes off and anyone visiting the forum will be more inclined to participate as there would be new and current debate happening. Whereas if they visited and there was the same old "Lennon" thread, would they bother looking at it and participating? I doubt it, I know I wouldnt/havent.
of course, if two people start a thread about Lennon tearing Leeds a new one then they get merged, I don't think anyone is disputing that, I think the problem comes from over generalisation of threads, lets face it, it's a message board about a football club, we have 11 players, 1 manager, 1 stadium, a couple of main rivals and 3 or 4 trophies to discuss, we could create a thread for each one and be done with it but that would be very dull.
People have been saying that the wording of the options influenced the results, well maybe that's true a little but I think most people are smart enough to know that it was for/indifferent/against and the majority has spoken. The interesting thing for me is that this thread, over the last couple of days has created the best debate on this site and has made me want to check in and see what people think.
Lastly, the transfer sub-forum is a great idea, I'll be honest, I don't post in there much as I don't know half the players being discussed and I'm certainly not ITK so I can't start any discussions over there, it is a good place to go to see peoples opinions on who we are linked to and who other clubs are linked to and it keeps SN&V from being swamped with that stuff. I'm starting to think that maybe we are in need of a forum for "other clubs/games" this could be where we discuss Arsenal/Chelsea/Liverpool, there could be new threads for each team/game and for weekends like this there would be loads of great chat going on without cluttering up the Spurs board.
I just really hope that something changes, I've been visiting this site for the last 5 or 6 years I think and I've noticed that I've been coming here less and less lately, it would be a shame if it got to the point where I simply stopped coming all together, I'm sure none of you clowns would care or even notice ;-) but to me it would be like losing touch with an old school friend. Fingers crossed
Crawley
Board Legend
I'm still at work for another 3.5 hrs yet so will answer this..........
Another poster listed the "mega-threads". With their age, duration etc etc......I personally responded with MY views on all of them, and yes there are some that could do with disappearing. But not all.
Threads like the Youth teams and loans, stadium, trivia quiz etc.......all current and valid, but I will certainly discuss the possibility of moving some (AVB, Harry train crashes for instance) to Classics and starting afresh. Although you know there will be a vocal minority/majority against such a move, don't you?
Another poster listed the "mega-threads". With their age, duration etc etc......I personally responded with MY views on all of them, and yes there are some that could do with disappearing. But not all.
Threads like the Youth teams and loans, stadium, trivia quiz etc.......all current and valid, but I will certainly discuss the possibility of moving some (AVB, Harry train crashes for instance) to Classics and starting afresh. Although you know there will be a vocal minority/majority against such a move, don't you?
Danners9
Luke Young
You can start the threads with a link to the old thread if it makes people feel better, they can pick up from there but should realise it has become too big. I actually thought the forum software had a limit of how many pages a thread could have - maybe none of them have reached it yet.
SpursLodge
Nicola Berti
Agreed, things like the stadium thread are fine, there's a good reason why that's a single massive thread, because it's an ongoing saga. Simples. Again, the youth thread can stay, it's a decent resource for seeing what's coming up through the youth system for those of us that don't see them regularly.
The problem I have is all AVB discussions going into one thread, all Bale discussions going into one thread. The fact is that AVB can have a blinding game one day, make all the right subs at the exact right times and 3 days later he starts the wrong team and we're beaten before we begin yet those two opposite discussions currently go in the one AVB thread whereas I think they'd be better off in seperate threads so people can discuss what went right and what went wrong without any cross over.
P.S.
I'm up because I'm tinkled and watching comic book films (batman/iron man etc) what do you do that requires you to be at work at ten to four in the tinkling morning?
The problem I have is all AVB discussions going into one thread, all Bale discussions going into one thread. The fact is that AVB can have a blinding game one day, make all the right subs at the exact right times and 3 days later he starts the wrong team and we're beaten before we begin yet those two opposite discussions currently go in the one AVB thread whereas I think they'd be better off in seperate threads so people can discuss what went right and what went wrong without any cross over.
P.S.
I'm up because I'm tinkled and watching comic book films (batman/iron man etc) what do you do that requires you to be at work at ten to four in the tinkling morning?
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SpursLodge
Nicola Berti
That sounds cool, although I'm slightly concerned that you should be looking after these aircraft rather than on a website discussing thread merging with a tinkle head.
Yep, that's pretty much the idea, but also, don't recreate them by merging all vaguely similar threads in the future.
Crawley
Board Legend
Multi-tasking baby.
I have 3 monitors running........you're on one, the others take care of the airline stuff. No worries
Danners9
Luke Young
do you deal with Oman Air? if i give you the names of some crew, can you, er, revoke their IDs or something so they are forced to stay in England and not return here?
Crawley
Board Legend
SpursLodge
Nicola Berti
I do feel slightly guilty now about going to bed and leaving you with an empty monitor but i'm sure you can fill it with something.
Crawley
Board Legend
Danners9
Luke Young
Too bad 8-[
Here's the part I don't understand. Why is it necessary to start a new thread every time you (not anyone in particular) have a thought? If you think AVB made great substitutions you can share that in the OMT or the ratings thread. If you want to have a discussion about subs in general or that AVB is really good at making them you could start a thread, but it would help if the first post said more than just 'great subs tonight'.
All player threads would still have pretty much the same headlines every time they got restarted and even if you managed to come up with something extemely captivating the content inside would quickly become the same as in the previous one. Having a dedicated thread for a player works just fine when most of the stuff posted is just minor comments about them anyway. IF something groundbreaking were to happen it could be time for a new thread and that's an area where we could perhaps ease off a little, but it requires the thread starter to put just a tiny bit of effort into the OP. Make the headline obvious and add some content, not just Title: 'Defoe', Content: 'I hear he's injured, anyone else heard this?'
As for the other mega threads, as Spursalot says, they are there to avoid 50 separate threads with only a couple of replies as someone will always post stuff on those subjects. Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool should be allowed to stay, Saudi Sportswashing Machine can go. Again, if there's a genuinely good and thought provoking OP a new thread isn't a bad thing. We discuss it and the thread goes away. If it's only minor stuff, put it in the Other Teams and Games thread.
Papercut
Jermaine Jenas
In an idealistic World that may work perhaps. But what happens here is people will look for the first Lennon thread and post something unrelated to the heading. Sometimes this is so they don't start yet another Lennon thread (perhaps they feel for the benefit of the board). What if both threads evolve and are then closely related in their topic? What then, which one do you post your opinion in? I suspect if poster A posted in thread A, then they do not want their original points invalidated by thread B so will continue posting in thread A; same for poster B and thread B (if you catch my drift :-k)
I think as long as people post quality and debate well then people on here will enjoy the board more - mega thread or not (IMO)
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
The last post I made on here was 01/10/2012, prior to that 12/09/2012, and that absence certainly had nothing to do with threads being merged. In some cases its annoying, in others perfectly appropriate, you know what though? Deal with it.
I do think in general the board is slightly over moderated, but dont doubt it is with the best of intentions, or that it is difficult to strike the right balance. As with any group in authority there are those that "get it" and do sterling work, and there are those that are... shall we say "over enthusiasitc".
I dont think would hurt to refresh the moderator pool, or even strip those that are a bit heavy handed of their powers, but again that isnt the issue with the board. And in all honesty one can only applaud that these guys bang their head against the wall in an effort to keep the board a happy and welcoming place.
The biggest issue with the board IMO is the posters.
Too many have no interest in actual debate at all. Nor light hearted conversation. Too many take themselves far to seriously. Too many are so completely bound to a particular bandwagon or two that they have become poisonous parodies of once good posters.
It is with disbelief that I see people complaining that posters want to talk about how the team plays, how a potential buy could fit in, how we could perform better, the pros and cons of various situations/selections. Seriously, that basically covers "Football" and on a FOOTBALL forum there are tacos complaining about FOOTBALL conversations.
It is so fudging boring to see the Harry vs AVB brick still going on. Come one guys, seriously?
Random is for random talk, SN&V is for football talk, if you find the threads are all a bit to "footbally" for you then chances are you are in the wrong forum, recognise and accept it and move on to somewhere that suits you - instead of ruining the experience for others.
The rules are a double edged sword as well. Again, set up with the best of intentions but also allowing very disruptive posters smart enough to recognise 'the line' a great deal of protection and even a tool to cause mayhem.
Having only lurked for the last few months, less and less in all honesty, it has become clear to me this place is not as accessible as it once was. That is nothing to do with with the moderation and everything to do with the aggression certain posters display killing off any semblance of open debate. Take a look - why would anyone want to join up at the moment?
Honestly I think a hardcore cull of dingdongheads - outside of the site rules - would do wonders for the place and allow new blood to join a board you all talk of wanting.
I do think in general the board is slightly over moderated, but dont doubt it is with the best of intentions, or that it is difficult to strike the right balance. As with any group in authority there are those that "get it" and do sterling work, and there are those that are... shall we say "over enthusiasitc".
I dont think would hurt to refresh the moderator pool, or even strip those that are a bit heavy handed of their powers, but again that isnt the issue with the board. And in all honesty one can only applaud that these guys bang their head against the wall in an effort to keep the board a happy and welcoming place.
The biggest issue with the board IMO is the posters.
Too many have no interest in actual debate at all. Nor light hearted conversation. Too many take themselves far to seriously. Too many are so completely bound to a particular bandwagon or two that they have become poisonous parodies of once good posters.
It is with disbelief that I see people complaining that posters want to talk about how the team plays, how a potential buy could fit in, how we could perform better, the pros and cons of various situations/selections. Seriously, that basically covers "Football" and on a FOOTBALL forum there are tacos complaining about FOOTBALL conversations.
It is so fudging boring to see the Harry vs AVB brick still going on. Come one guys, seriously?
Random is for random talk, SN&V is for football talk, if you find the threads are all a bit to "footbally" for you then chances are you are in the wrong forum, recognise and accept it and move on to somewhere that suits you - instead of ruining the experience for others.
The rules are a double edged sword as well. Again, set up with the best of intentions but also allowing very disruptive posters smart enough to recognise 'the line' a great deal of protection and even a tool to cause mayhem.
Having only lurked for the last few months, less and less in all honesty, it has become clear to me this place is not as accessible as it once was. That is nothing to do with with the moderation and everything to do with the aggression certain posters display killing off any semblance of open debate. Take a look - why would anyone want to join up at the moment?
Honestly I think a hardcore cull of dingdongheads - outside of the site rules - would do wonders for the place and allow new blood to join a board you all talk of wanting.
7percent
Pascal Chimbonda
People keep mentioning the stadium thread as an example of 'mega threads working'.
It is currently a good example of mega threads working, but back in the day when artists impressions were just released and we were linked with stratford it was horrible. There was just too much going on for one thread.
I think what can frustrate me most is in each thread you can have several groups of people trying to have several different discussions.. I don't want to contribute to such threads if any new thought/topic I post gets lost/swamped under the discussions and or bickering already occuring in that thread.. That DOES NOT mean I want to start a new thread.
When Muamba had his heart attack I started the thread about it, I honestly thought that somebody would immediately reply with 'We're already discussing that in the match thread, mate' in fact I'm pretty sure somebody did.
It's a horrible feeling to have on a message board that you shouldn't post something, and that it's somehow against the rules or etiquette to start a thread.
I think we need to have a bit of a shake up round these parts. I know a lot of posters are happy with it but it sounds like there's a lot of fringe posters like me who don't find the current set up very welcoming.
I do think having a board just for other football would be a good move too, you might argue there aren't enough posters for it to work, but I think it would flourish. Plus, if somebody wanted to start an el classico thread outside of 'the spanish football thread' or 'the barcelona thread' it wouldn't be a big deal as it's not taking up space in the SNV forum.
It is currently a good example of mega threads working, but back in the day when artists impressions were just released and we were linked with stratford it was horrible. There was just too much going on for one thread.
I think what can frustrate me most is in each thread you can have several groups of people trying to have several different discussions.. I don't want to contribute to such threads if any new thought/topic I post gets lost/swamped under the discussions and or bickering already occuring in that thread.. That DOES NOT mean I want to start a new thread.
When Muamba had his heart attack I started the thread about it, I honestly thought that somebody would immediately reply with 'We're already discussing that in the match thread, mate' in fact I'm pretty sure somebody did.
It's a horrible feeling to have on a message board that you shouldn't post something, and that it's somehow against the rules or etiquette to start a thread.
I think we need to have a bit of a shake up round these parts. I know a lot of posters are happy with it but it sounds like there's a lot of fringe posters like me who don't find the current set up very welcoming.
I do think having a board just for other football would be a good move too, you might argue there aren't enough posters for it to work, but I think it would flourish. Plus, if somebody wanted to start an el classico thread outside of 'the spanish football thread' or 'the barcelona thread' it wouldn't be a big deal as it's not taking up space in the SNV forum.
I think this is true but is made worse at the moment. In the past if a thread got "ruined" by this type of poster I could ignore it safe in the knowledge it would eventually disappear to be replaced naturally by new content.
There are valid examples of when merging should be used which I agree with but some threads are just dead to the casual observer and as it stands these threads will stay there for ever. I dont find out any news on here anymore which is fine because I have other sources for that but I did used to enjoy coming on here and finding out something new.