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Politics, politics, politics

The Labour 'inquest' is a load of gonad*s. Was it appealing to the poor or the aspirational middle classes where they went wrong? This is all misnomer and over complication. It simply comes down to image and personality. Whether youre rich or poor, Ed M and Balls had a woeful image and came across very badly. They didn't have any fresh ideas either to make up for their presentation.

Simply choose someone who looks good, who people like the look of (that simple). Ideally they can also refresh politics with some more dynamic ideas, do things a little differently, becasuse people are bored of the same old political noises.
 
Robspur12 said:
I think the public benefit of stopping fraud out weighs any thing else. For 3 reasons - 1) if people can see others getting away with it they will chance their arm themselves, 2) people who work, hard and pay their taxes then lose confidence in the system and see every one who claim benefits as scrounges despite many being in genuine need 3) there is less money available for those in genuine need or to invest in public services. The local authorities IMO should find a way to have a zero tolerance approach to benefit fraud any thing else in the long run is short sighted.

Honestly some of the fraud I have witnessed in relation to housing benefit and blue badges, both of which had honourable intentions, shakes my faith in human nature. In the latter much of it is committed by the so called middle class.
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I agree.
As long as the cost of clamping down is less than the saving - and of course, as you said, there is both a macro and micro economic side to that.

But it shouldn't come at the detriment of the people that do really need it - which with the all encompassing vilification culture and sensationalist media and political output in the UK, I feel that premise is being lost.

I do think this is also partly a response to the break down in community - which has an uplifting effect for people to do better but also has a role to play in reporting the people taking the tinkle......it is OUR money in the system after all.
 
monkeybarry said:
I agree.
As long as the cost of clamping down is less than the saving - and of course, as you said, there is both a macro and micro economic side to that.

But it shouldn't come at the detriment of the people that do really need it - which with the all encompassing vilification culture and sensationalist media and political output in the UK, I feel that premise is being lost.

I do think this is also partly a response to the break down in community - which has an uplifting effect for people to do better but also has a role to play in reporting the people taking the tinkle......it is OUR money in the system after all.
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Coming from an anti-tax type such as I, this may sound a little strange but it doesn't have to be cheaper in the short term.

Look at the drink driving campaign. The cost of catching and prosecuting motorists was far more expensive than any returns over about 5 or 10 years. That impact has lasted though, and now it only needs a trickle of resources to keep under control. If, in the very short term, a very noisy campaign is required to get the message across that you will go to prison for benefit fraud then it can be worth it.
 
So....

(Being a little careful how I phrase this) It seems that Labour's left may have been chatting to the Sundays and Chuka has had to withdraw from the leadership contest in order to keep his private stuff private. His press statement is what got me looking around . Peac0cks don't fold their tails back in because everyone's looking - it just didn't make sense.

Owen Jones appears to have been laying some groundwork on Twitter (at the time of him posting this there were no suggestions from any side of politics that this is why Chuka dropped out):
https://twitter.com/x/status/599150291871752192

Absolutely shameful stuff from the Labour's more swivel-eyed contingent. My understanding of Chuka (as with most politicians in his position) is that everyone knows but nobody talks about it until he does - isn't that the etiquette?
 
scaramanga said:
So....

(Being a little careful how I phrase this) It seems that Labour's left may have been chatting to the Sundays and Chuka has had to withdraw from the leadership contest in order to keep his private stuff private. His press statement is what got me looking around . Peac0cks don't fold their tails back in because everyone's looking - it just didn't make sense.

Owen Jones appears to have been laying some groundwork on Twitter (at the time of him posting this there were no suggestions from any side of politics that this is why Chuka dropped out):
https://twitter.com/x/status/599150291871752192

Absolutely shameful stuff from the Labour's more swivel-eyed contingent. My understanding of Chuka (as with most politicians in his position) is that everyone knows but nobody talks about it until he does - isn't that the etiquette?
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Well, he was said to be the candidate that most worried the Tories....my bet would be either a story from the Times or the Daily Mail about a tryst (less than a week after being pictured with a doting GF) or a story about an off-hand derogatory comment about 'benefit scroungers' or similar...
#Popcorntime

Agree that it is all very sad but totally disagree that it would be from "Labour's more swivel-eyed contingent" :p
 
glorygloryeze said:
Well, he was said to be the candidate that most worried the Tories....my bet would be either a story from the Times or the Daily Mail about a tryst (less than a week after being pictured with a doting GF) or a story about an off-hand derogatory comment about 'benefit scroungers' or similar...
#Popcorntime

Agree that it is all very sad but totally disagree that it would be from "Labour's more swivel-eyed contingent" :p
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That sort of ignores the fact that Labour figures (particularly those that dislike NuLab) are essentially outing him before he's ready. Seems far more like an internal hatchet job than anything the right wing press are doing - especially as going after a black **allegedly** gay man would score far more points for Labour than it would for the Conservatives.

AFAIK Jarvis and Hunt were the two most concerning the Conservatives. Chuka could never have won back the UKIP vote that Labour so desperately need.
 
scaramanga said:
That sort of ignores the fact that Labour figures (particularly those that dislike NuLab) are essentially outing him before he's ready.
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Who are you referring to here, and how is he 'being outed' exactly?

scaramanga said:
Seems far more like an internal hatchet job than anything the right wing press are doing - especially as going after a black **allegedly** gay man would score far more points for Labour than it would for the Conservatives.
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Whoa, where did the **allegedly gay** issue come from?? First i've heard of that!! Are you ITK now?;)

If such a thing were true, it might score well for Labour amongst their already metropolitan loyal support but it's not exactly going to win back votes from Tory heartlands in Middle England - or get back votes lost to UKIP? It would be a win-win for the Tory right if this was the case

scaramanga said:
AFAIK Jarvis and Hunt were the two most concerning the Conservatives. Chuka could never have won back the UKIP vote that Labour so desperately need.
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Agree re UKIP but Tory commentators very much feared Chuka as much as Jarvis (not sure about Hunt in this case...)
 
glorygloryeze said:
Who are you referring to here, and how is he 'being outed' exactly?

Whoa, where did the **allegedly gay** issue come from?? First i've heard of that!! Are you ITK now?;)
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I thought this was common knowledge? Not saying it's true, but everyone I've ever spoken to about him has always assumed the same thing. Then there's the girlfriend who magically appears before a leadership announcement.

As I said, that kind of thing is always acknowledged and accepted in politics but rarely mentioned except behind closed doors. Owen Jones (and other left-leaning bloggers apparently) started laying down some hints about Chuka this morning - what I hear (and I am a little ITK here) is that stories were being offered to Sunday papers today. No I don't know what but as I always assumed he was in the closet it's the first thing that sprang to mind. Then I saw the Owen Jones tweet and it started to make sense.
 
scaramanga said:
I thought this was common knowledge? Not saying it's true, but everyone I've ever spoken to about him has always assumed the same thing. Then there's the girlfriend who magically appears before a leadership announcement.

As I said, that kind of thing is always acknowledged and accepted in politics but rarely mentioned except behind closed doors. Owen Jones (and other left-leaning bloggers apparently) started laying down some hints about Chuka this morning - what I hear (and I am a little ITK here) is that stories were being offered to Sunday papers today. No I don't know what but as I always assumed he was in the closet it's the first thing that sprang to mind. Then I saw the Owen Jones tweet and it started to make sense.
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Oh i see. I didn't have any incling of any of this. IF it IS true i don't think it is common knowledge at all...
All very sad really.

I'm going to try and squeeze some ITK from you then: who (vague position NOT name) is it that you have heard has been offering the Sunday Papers stories?
 
glorygloryeze said:
Oh i see. I didn't have any incling of any of this. IF it IS true i don't think it is common knowledge at all...
All very sad really.

I'm going to try and squeeze some ITK from you then: who (vague position NOT name) is it that you have heard has been offering the Sunday Papers stories?
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I have a friend who works at the mirror. Not on politics but these things go around the offices very quickly.

Obviously the Mirror turned the exclusive down (but reserved the right to publish once others had).

Agree that it's a horrible state of affairs if
a) A person looking to become PM has to hide their sexuality and
b) That others (from any party) would use it against them
 
scaramanga said:
I have a friend who works at the mirror. Not on politics but these things go around the offices very quickly.

Obviously the Mirror turned the exclusive down (but reserved the right to publish once others had).

Agree that it's a horrible state of affairs if
a) A person looking to become PM has to hide their sexuality and
b) That others (from any party) would use it against them
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Indeed. Another ITK request: I take it your friend didn't say where the stories came from?
 
glorygloryeze said:
Indeed. Another ITK request: I take it your friend didn't say where the stories came from?
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I'm not sure he knew. He just told me that there were people who wanted to put him down - not even as gossip really we were just disagreeing on politics as he and I always do. He just mentioned what a shame it is as he's fairly NuLab too.

Edit:
I could ask, but that's somewhat breaching boundaries. He never used to push me on what people used to have on their computers when I worked in IT in a similar way.
 
scaramanga said:
I'm not sure he knew. He just told me that there were people who wanted to put him down - not even as gossip really we were just disagreeing on politics as he and I always do. He just mentioned what a shame it is as he's fairly NuLab too.

Edit:
I could ask, but that's somewhat breaching boundaries. He never used to push me on what people used to have on their computers when I worked in IT in a similar way.
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I'm tempted to say please do...but actually this is really sad tittle-tattle on my part anyway.

My money would be somebody from the right of the Parliament/Media circles as they would have most to gain imo
 
I think he brought it on himself. He choose to appear with a 'girlfriend' right before his leadership bid.
He might have the right background but he's not clever enough to run for PM.

Also sitting beside Mandelson. What the fudge was he thinking?
 
I can barely contain my excitement as the Blairites queue up to offer middle England the big decision at the next election; The Tories in blue or The Tories in red. Nevermind trying to offer the electorate an actual alternative or opposition, just triangulate to win an election...and with that power, do nothing dramatically different. Pointless for the rest of us, but as long as a few 'brushed aluminium pr1cks' can have a career in politics and maybe hit the jackpot and get some of that Blair $$$.

I hope that Labour elect the most, centrist, moderate, Blairite candidate they can find -- and then get crushed at the next election. Maybe then, they will wake up and see what has happened north of the border (and to a lesser extent, the UKIP vote share) and see that a party that actually stands for something can also win votes.
 
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scaramanga said:
I'm not sure he knew. He just told me that there were people who wanted to put him down - not even as gossip really we were just disagreeing on politics as he and I always do. He just mentioned what a shame it is as he's fairly NuLab too.

Edit:
I could ask, but that's somewhat breaching boundaries. He never used to push me on what people used to have on their computers when I worked in IT in a similar way.
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Good for you Scara. Important lines and all that...
 
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