StephenH
David Ginola
Don't worry he wouldn't last that long. The choices of Bojo or Corbyn are an indictment to the current poor state of British politics and wider society.
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Politics, politics, politics
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
Don't worry he wouldn't last that long. The choices of Bojo or Corbyn are an indictment to the current poor state of British politics and wider society.
In which case he should have the courage to make that stand publicly.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Lib Dem leader Sir Vince Cable, who is campaigning for another EU referendum, described the government's latest announcement as "psychological warfare".
"The Conservative government are attempting to scare MPs, businesses and the public with the threat of a no-deal," said Sir Vince, whose anti-Brexit party has 11 out of 650 MPs.
"Theresa May is irresponsibly trying to run down the clock so that the only option is to support her discredited deal."
Not wrong, is he?
The thing Im starting to wonder is, simply, why? Why is she so bloody minded about this specific path?
If nothing else I expect politicians decisions to be entirely changeable depending no which way public favour is blowing, she could have made a number of different decisions to appeal to the masses but instead she has just put the blinkers up and ploughed ahead.
"The Conservative government are attempting to scare MPs, businesses and the public with the threat of a no-deal," said Sir Vince, whose anti-Brexit party has 11 out of 650 MPs.
"Theresa May is irresponsibly trying to run down the clock so that the only option is to support her discredited deal."
Not wrong, is he?
The thing Im starting to wonder is, simply, why? Why is she so bloody minded about this specific path?
If nothing else I expect politicians decisions to be entirely changeable depending no which way public favour is blowing, she could have made a number of different decisions to appeal to the masses but instead she has just put the blinkers up and ploughed ahead.
parklane1
Vic Buckingham
You mean a case of " if you can not beat them then join them".
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Plaid Cymru Brexit spokesman Hywel Williams says opposition parties have no confidence in the government, no confidence in the prime minister and no confidence in the leader of the opposition, Jeremy Corbyn, who he says has tabled a "motion of no consequence".
"This is no more than a pretence at opposition," he says.
His party have - with others - tabled an amendment to "this sham motion", he explains. They will work together to ensure that "the people of these islands get the political leadership that they deserve"
"This is no more than a pretence at opposition," he says.
His party have - with others - tabled an amendment to "this sham motion", he explains. They will work together to ensure that "the people of these islands get the political leadership that they deserve"
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
At which point Chuka Umunna and the Blairites would instantly knife him
Which is the end result of bullying all the moderates out of your party to suit your fringe extremists
Parklaner81
Steve Hodge
Where do the Labour brexiteers, Hoey et al., stand on it (haven't followed the news)? Will they vote with the government, and are there enough of them to offset the DUP votes in the event you're correct about the ERG?
StephenH
David Ginola
Someone needs to do the kind thing for the Labour Party and the country!
He’s a sap, maybe a nice guy but a sap nonetheless.
I'm not sure how things can be done any differently in opposition. Now, I don't think Corbyn is some master strategist (though I do think McDonnell is under-estimated) but think about the direction of travel here, from a Labour Party perspective. They could never just say "we oppose leaving and we want to remain." Look at how that worked for the Lib Dems at the last general election, basically a disaster.
There is no hard brexit that is deliverable and the soft versions are all worse than just staying in. But now, despite the scare stories of hard brexit, what seems more likely than ever is a 2nd vote. There are members of the cabinet now talking this up. There will be howls of "betrayal!" which is why Labour need to let it happen through Parliament, with Tory support. Otherwise they reap the backlash of "thwarting the will of the people."
As for Corbyn being some Machiavellian genius who wants Brexit and is just waiting for the government to deliver it, I don't buy that. He might be happy enough if/when we leave, but what he really wants is to hang the mess around the neck of The Tories and avoid being blamed as the guy who cheated leavers out of leaving the EU -- which is particularly important given the number of Labour constituencies that voted leave. Militantly opposing Brexit would have given the Tories an easy out. May has tried this already, repeatedly at the dispatch box asking Corbyn to stand up and disavow a 2nd referendum. He hasn't played that game. Instead, as time ticks on, more and more of her own party have called for one.
Constructive ambiguity and leaving all options on the table (as per the decision taken at Labour Party Conference) means that the opposition are well positioned to move with events. May has boxed herself in and the ERG have blown their chance of a hard brexit imo. Parliament will do the rest. Either Brexit in name only (Norway+) or a 2nd referendum.
Interesting that a couple of Tory MPs have said they would vote with Labour in a vote of no confidence in order to block a no-deal Brexit (Nick Boles and Anna Soubry). This shows that even more pressure will be put on the government to move towards Norway+ or 2nd referendum. No-deal is dead imo.
There's one Lib Dem who said he'd vote for Mays deal. He promised during the general election he'd support the deal to take us out of the EU. Wouldn't surprise me if some Labour MPs felt they were in a similar position like Caroline Flint.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Thats a new one. And Im not sure there is such a thing.
The problem with his "constructive ambiguity" is that its ambiguous, and Im not sure constructive at all.
His fans see it as some sort of master stroke, anyone else sees it as him letting it all go to the dogs to satisfy his 40 year old ideals.
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
The Blairites are not moderates, they are neo liberal time serving careerists. They should have the courage of the their own convictions, resign at the next election and run for the Tories or their new latest 'third way' incarnation. It wont happen though because they know they would never get their bums on the leather again and all the perks that entails.
Gilzeantoscore
Justin Edinburgh
Yeah cause,cause all the bright, shiny, hip, new ideas are working so well. Just because it's old doesn't by definition invalidate it.
Taking into account the Overton Window (clicky for explanation) Blairites are the absolute definition of moderates. In the UK, for any time period over the last two generations, it doesn't get more centrist than Blairites.
So he's finally done something anyway. Fairly unsurprising that it's something really fudging stupid.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46619689
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46619689
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
If you were to dial down the red knee jerk reflex, youd understand the point isnt even about the ideas per se, rather his absolute devotion to them since the beginning of time and that being his primary interest. Be that in the interests of his part, or the nation, or not.