• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Politics, politics, politics

the dza said:
I can't hear the name Paul Nuttall without thinking of Stewart Lee's immigration bit, with "The UKIPs."

John Mann is right, Diane Abbott is a coward for not voting -- calling in sick ffs, pathetic.

I also don't think Corbyn should have whipped his MPs either. He never toed the line as a backbencher, so give them a free vote. He's no good at playing politics, so I don't know why he tries to. He should just be true to himself, but I guess he wasn't with the EU referendum either. Disappointing, but not surprising.
Click to expand...

Because he is leader of the opposition.

I think his behaviour over the EU shows he is just as a big a faker as the others.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Because he is leader of the opposition.

I think his behaviour over the EU shows he is just as a big a faker as the others.
Click to expand...

I didn't mean it like that. I meant trying to placate this one and that one within his own party, hence him being in the remain camp when everyone knows he wanted to leave. I don't think he believes in whipping his MPs either, yet he's done so when he knows a bunch of them will vote the other way anyway. I'd love to Malcolm Tucker him and get him to wake up -- Jezza, if you're going to trade on authenticity then be authentic ffs.
 
parklane1 said:
Your right we are doomed, or so i have been told.
Click to expand...

Let me get this straight...while still in the EU, with not one change having taken place, Britain is doing well...and this is a sign that Brexit is working!? All it shows is confidence hasn't been eroded, but we don't even know what Brexit will entail yet.

It's not what is happening now that the 'doom mongers' are worried about. It's what happens IF car companies can't sell to Europe with out tariffs, and people lose jobs. Or London's financial clout is eroded as banks move into the core - in Europe. Or if laws on equality and human rights made by the EU are repealed leaving disabled peoples and workers less well protected. Or how Britain will fair making trade deals with 50m consumers behind her rather than 550m, and what price we'll pay to gain access to markets. Or how our massive service sector - accountants, law firms etc - will be hit if they can't work with Europe.

Is it really doom mongering to be concerned about such things? Or put another way is it reckless to sweep all this under the carpet and pretend that all is sweet?

Personally I think most MPs have shown hypocrisy and a distinct lack of leadership over the past few days. Its MPs job to do right by people. To do what, in a reasoned fashion, is right for them, after all most people don't have time to weigh it all up, pros cons etc, they have better thing to do. MPs need to do right for the Sunderland car workers who didn't understand they could be voting themselves out of a job, right for the youth of this country who don't want Brexit and want opportunity, to do right for those who need the NHS to have immigrant nurses and carers, and for it to be funded by healthy tax revenues from banks and businesses who trade. The truth is, national services have been cut massively over the past decade due to bailing out the banks. That has fuk all to do with the EU. MPs need to have the balls to stand up and state this, and put themselves on the line for doing what is right for the UK. Not hide behind 1/3 of the population voting, many of whom were voting on false advertising - x million per week for the NHS, no Turks entering the UK, that we would leave the EU but remain in the single market. All false promises by those who campaigned for brexit...which are now off the table! Why have MPs made no mention of this? Most seem cowedly, beaten down not able to simply do what their better judgment is tell them is right> Instead conforming to a misplaced notion of democracy. All imo. I'm sure you'll agree, especially Mr DFL! :)
 
Last edited:
SpurMeUp said:
Let me get this straight...while still in the EU, with not one change having taken place, Britain is doing well...and this is a sign that Brexit is working!? All it shows is confidence hasn't been eroded, but we don't even know what Brexit will entail yet.

It's not what is happening now that the 'doom mongers' are worried about. It's what happens IF car companies can't sell to Europe with out tariffs, and people lose jobs. Or London's financial clout is eroded as banks move into the core - in Europe. Or if laws on equality and human rights made by the EU are repealed leaving disabled peoples and workers less well protected. Or how Britain will fair making trade deals with 50m consumers behind her rather than 550m, and what price we'll pay to gain access to markets. Or how our massive service sector - accountants, law firms etc - will be hit if they can't work with Europe.

Is it really doom mongering to be concerned about such things? Or put another way is it reckless to sweep all this under the carpet and pretend that all is sweet?

Personally I think most MPs have shown hypocrisy and a distinct lack of leadership over the past few days. Its MPs job to do right by people. To do what, in a reasoned fashion, is right for them, after all most people don't have time to weigh it all up, pros cons etc, they have better thing to do. MPs need to do right for the Sunderland car workers who didn't understand they could be voting themselves out of a job, right for the youth of this country who don't want Brexit and want opportunity, to do right for those who need the NHS to have immigrant nurses and carers, and for it to be funded by healthy tax revenues from banks and businesses who trade. The truth is, national services have been cut massively over the past decade due to bailing out the banks. That has fuk all to do with the EU. MPs need to have the balls to stand up and state this, and put themselves on the line for doing what is right for the UK. Not hide behind 1/3 of the population voting, many of whom were voting on false advertising - x million per week for the NHS, no Turks entering the UK, that we would leave the EU but remain in the single market. All false promises by those who campaigned for brexit...which are now off the table! Why have MPs made no mention of this? Most seem cowedly, beaten down not able to simply do what their better judgment is tell them is right> Instead conforming to a misplaced notion of democracy. All imo. I'm sure you'll agree, especially Mr DFL! :)
Click to expand...

I am not going into a war and peace answer so lets just say i disagree with most of that. However the word IF which i have bolded in your second paragraph is the crux. Now there were many filling the doom and gloom scenario when the result first came out giving their opinion that all these IF were likely to happen because the majority were hoodwinked etc etc into voting for out. Now as i look around i hear some of those same hysterical doom and gloomers saying IF it happens. :p

Flip flop comes to mind.
 
milo said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/827088848727445504
Click to expand...
Parris can not even decide if he is a tory or not. I am not sure how he thinks he can get into the mind of every voter. But i have never had one doubt about how i voted. The thing that got me is how quite a few people have told me that i must realise i voted the wrong way or i did not know what i was doing.

It is that arrogance that has shocked me, i do not care how anyone votes in any election. But if they have sat down and thought about it, then it was the correct way whatever the outcome.

It is quite offensive to keep being told you must realise you voted the wrong way as if your views and opinions do not matter, and personally I feel the need to constantly defend them, because if I and others do not then it will become an accepted view point that anyone who voted out was some sort of subhuman who did not have the intelligence to think things through and way up different factors and then decide which way to vote.

What Parris and you Milo to a lesser extent are doing will never be acceptable to me. Because it is the constant attacks on people that voted out that will just entrench our views, and I dare say something similar is probably happening in America right now.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Parris can not even decide if he is a tory or not. I am not sure how he thinks he can get into the mind of every voter. But i have never had one doubt about how i voted. The thing that got me is how quite a few people have told me that i must realise i voted the wrong way or i did not know what i was doing.

It is that arrogance that has shocked me, i do not care how anyone votes in any election. But if they have sat down and thought about it, then it was the correct way whatever the outcome.

It is quite offensive to keep being told you must realise you voted the wrong way as if your views and opinions do not matter, and personally I feel the need to constantly defend them, because if I and others do not then it will become an accepted view point that anyone who voted out was some sort of subhuman who did not have the intelligence to think things through and way up different factors and then decide which way to vote.

What Parris and you Milo to a lesser extent are doing will never be acceptable to me. Because it is the constant attacks on people that voted out that will just entrench our views, and I dare say something similar is probably happening in America right now.
Click to expand...


Very good post, especially the bolded bit.
 
parklane1 said:
Sorry but i was told by the experts ( so called) that we were doomed the day after the result came in.
Click to expand...

"Doomed" that very day, or "doomed" in the sense that the die is cast? Surely the difference between the two is evident?

You must be able to see the folly is attempting to claim that it's all fine when it hasn't even happened yet? It's like being happy you haven't got a hangover before you've had the drink.

For the record, I wanted to remain (no brick, Sherlock) and I think, in the end, it'll all work out about square, one way or another. But I do think there'll be some hefty bumps in the road and there'll be some short term damage, then mid to long-term pain (measured in years) for many people.

I'm afraid, though, it is undeniable that we've ended up voting for a jump into the dark, to a greater or lesser degree, based on a number of fictions from the Leave campaign, splendidly outlined by @SpurMeUp above.
 
Hotshot-Tottenham said:
"Doomed" that very day, or "doomed" in the sense that the die is cast? Surely the difference between the two is evident?

You must be able to see the folly is attempting to claim that it's all fine when it hasn't even happened yet? It's like being happy you haven't got a hangover before you've had the drink.

For the record, I wanted to remain (no brick, Sherlock) and I think, in the end, it'll all work out about square, one way or another. But I do think there'll be some hefty bumps in the road and there'll be some short term damage, then mid to long-term pain (measured in years) for many people.

I'm afraid, though, it is undeniable that we've ended up voting for a jump into the dark, to a greater or lesser degree, based on a number of fictions from the Leave campaign, splendidly outlined by @SpurMeUp above.
Click to expand...

(1) Well there were plenty on hear who said we were doomed for voting out so the difference between the two was not evident to some.

(2) No more folly then some who claimed we were in trouble before it had even happened.
 
parklane1 said:
(1) Well there were plenty on hear who said we were doomed for voting out so the difference between the two was not evident to some.

(2) No more folly then some who claimed we were in trouble before it had even happened.
Click to expand...

At my sisters daughters school St Nicolas primary school in Portslade, the teachers told the children that Britain would be at war if we voted out.

The BBC our public funded broadcaster were running stories that if we voted out, the countries banking system would collapse and food would disappear from the shelves of supermarkets.

It was one of the greatest lies ever told in my lifetime and will remain as a national disgrace for a long time. I doubt I will ever be able to forgive the lies that some government officials told just to further there own political views. I have said before but Carney and the Bank of England have lost all credibility for me, just like the IMF did 5-10 years ago.
 
While I agree people are condensing on both sides - "you must realise you got it wrong." And that remain entrenched people have an air of we're the intelligent ones and you're racist simpletons. DFL you do need to man up. You like arguing about this because it's so polarised. But make your arguments and don't get upset by it all. Otherwise Milo's tweet seem correct.

Brexit is not cut and dry either way. It's very unsure what list of trade and legal outcomes will be delivered under the one term. Or even if they will be delivered. What does the government do if it comes out of final negotiations with a deal it doesn't like? The EU don't have do the UK favours. Do the government put the EU deal to referendum or commons vote? Or plough on mindlessly delivering a poor outcome for the UK?

Going forward the UK, politicians, observers all need to move away from a polarised view of brexit. Each complex issue should be considered on its merits alone. There are advantages with brexit, and remain 'bigots' [emoji23] need to identify them and realise them, even if ultimately they feel these are outweighed by the disadvantages. DFL and PL1s posts show that if brexit stays a row over who was correct, when actually everything is still up in the air, it will impede effective outcomes. The polarised in-out extends to government and EU too. It's all so personal, when it must shift to practicalities.

Ironically the EU itself, the EU government agencies are just that: practice, dull, bureaucratic, bogged down in legal and legislative detail. Pre-90s no one had much to say about them. But a few journalists - most notable was Boris - found that what was newsworthy and interesting was criticising and ridiculing. Stories about bananas being the wrong shape and funny French people. Way more interesting than a new trade law with Icelandic fisherman, or a new equality act for people etc etc. It's ironic because to achieve resolution now, that EU dull governance is exactly what we need [emoji23] The UK will probably have to hire people who are all ex-EU servants to drive Brexit. People who obviously believed in the EU because they went and worked for the union.

I think most would still take a Boris like outcome - a renegotiation and tweaking of our existing membership. But as it's become tribal, would this still be possible?




Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
Last edited:
SpurMeUp said:
While I agree people are condensing on both sides - "you must realise you got it wrong." And that remain entrenched people have an air of we're the intelligent ones and you're racist simpletons. DFL you do need to man up. You like arguing about this because it's so polarised. But make your arguments and don't get upset by it all. Otherwise Milo's tweet seem correct.

Brexit is not cut and dry either way. It's very unsure what list of trade and legal outcomes will be delivered under the one term. Or even if they will be delivered. What does the government do if it comes out of final negotiations with a deal it doesn't like? The EU don't have do the UK favours. Do the government put the EU deal to referendum or commons vote? Or plough on mindlessly delivering a poor outcome for the UK?

Going forward the UK, politicians, observers all need to move away from a polarised view of brexit. Each complex issue should be considered on its merits alone. There are advantages with brexit, and remain 'bigots' [emoji23] need to identify them and realise them, even if ultimately they feel these are outweighed by the disadvantages. DFL and PL1s posts show that if brexit stays a row over who was correct, when actually everything is still up in the air, it will impede effective outcomes. The polarised in-out extends to government and EU too. It's all so personal, when it must shift to practicalities.

Ironically the EU itself, the EU government agencies are just that: practice, dull, bureaucratic, bogged down in legal and legislative detail. Pre-90s no one had much to say about them. But a few journalists - most notable was Boris - found that what was newsworthy and interesting was criticising and ridiculing. Stories about bananas being the wrong shape and funny French people. Way more interesting than a new trade law with Icelandic fisherman, or a new equality act for people etc etc. It's ironic because to achieve resolution now, that EU dull governance is exactly what we need [emoji23] The UK will probably have to hire people who are all ex-EU servants to drive Brexit. People who obviously believed in the EU because they went and worked for the union.

I think most would still take a Boris like outcome - a renegotiation and tweaking of our existing membership. But as it's become tribal, would this still be possible?




Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Click to expand...


You know what actually your right Milo is right your all right i did not think about the result, i just skipped along on the day and decided on a whim which way to vote, now i realise i have done wrong i am going to sit here and smack myself in the head till i bleed.


By the way whichever way you voted was wrong and your to stupid to realise it and also the is the hint of racism in your views.............most normal people would feel the need to defend themselves from that.

I am not sure it matters what % of a country turn out to vote in an election. It is the ones that do vote that count, otherwise every vote in future can be called in to question. If your on the losing side that is...

I am going up to the lane but i will be taking a little break from here, i will say again i dont care how people vote. But those on the left and the way they have behaved since has been so disgusting. It has nothing to do with maning up, it is down right lies and smears. Things some of you rightly dislike about Trump, except it is not the lies and smears it is the fact there different ones to what you agree with.

Lastly i have given many times the reasons i voted out. With any luck comrade Putin will roll into eastern europe and wipe the smug smile off the elite in Brussels.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
You know what actually your right Milo is right your all right i did not think about the result, i just skipped along on the day and decided on a whim which way to vote, now i realise i have done wrong i am going to sit here and smack myself in the head till i bleed.


By the way whichever way you voted was wrong and your to stupid to realise it and also the is the hint of racism in your views.............most normal people would feel the need to defend themselves from that.

I am not sure it matters what % of a country turn out to vote in an election. It is the ones that do vote that count, otherwise every vote in future can be called in to question. If your on the losing side that is...

I am going up to the lane but i will be taking a little break from here, i will say again i dont care how people vote. But those on the left and the way they have behaved since has been so disgusting. It has nothing to do with maning up, it is down right lies and smears. Things some of you rightly dislike about Trump, except it is not the lies and smears it is the fact there different ones to what you agree with.

Lastly i have given many times the reasons i voted out. With any luck comrade Putin will roll into eastern europe and wipe the smug smile off the elite in Brussels.
Click to expand...

this isn't a left/right issue imo, my politics have always been centre right but the current rhetoric coming out of the government is out in the weeds as far as i'm concerned
 
parklane1 said:
Sorry but i was told by the experts ( so called) that we were doomed the day after the result came in.
Click to expand...
Care to cite any?
Most of the experts I heard talking pre vote (or are you referring to post vote?) about "post Brexit". I understood that to mean post leaving the EU. Arguably post triggering post triggering art 50 - although so little was understood about that I don't see the correlation.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back