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Politics, politics, politics

Very good point, I have lived a long time but I can not remember a time when the two major partys have been so full of soundbites, hogwashters and incincere members. Its no wonder the young and many older voters have lost interest, my GHod what I would give to see a politician with true conviction and not a load of hogwash.
Think it has been like it for a long time, which is why Farage was a breath of fresh air even if a lot of his policies do not stand up to further scrutiny and of course his own dodgy tax issues.

Was nice seeing someone come along and talk about issued that others were scared to and he did most of it in a fairly even handed way, I certainly do not believe UKIP to be racist but a little old fashioned and sharing the same problems as the Greens in that you do wonder if they could actually govern, Maybe they are just like the liberals and will win votes because people like the general gist of them even if you know they could not govern without a grown up party next to the,

The are a few good politicans about thought Frank Field for Labour is very good as is Kate Hooey. William Hauge was good for the tories but I have massively gone off him, but loving Ian Duncan Smith.
 
Think it has been like it for a long time, which is why Farage was a breath of fresh air even if a lot of his policies do not stand up to further scrutiny and of course his own dodgy tax issues.

Was nice seeing someone come along and talk about issued that others were scared to and he did most of it in a fairly even handed way, I certainly do not believe UKIP to be racist but a little old fashioned and sharing the same problems as the Greens in that you do wonder if they could actually govern, Maybe they are just like the liberals and will win votes because people like the general gist of them even if you know they could not govern without a grown up party next to the,

The are a few good politicans about thought Frank Field for Labour is very good as is Kate Hooey. William Hauge was good for the tories but I have massively gone off him, but loving Ian Duncan Smith.


Have to agree about Farage, people can right him off but the reason he has/is doing well is the lack of the two major partys doing anything about what many see as the biggest problem in the country. Its funny that since he has made waves Cameron has spent time on telling everyone that he intends to do something about the fears of many voters.
 
certainly do not believe UKIP to be racist but a little old fashioned
How old fashioned?

Like back when it was acceptable to ridicule people because of their race?
Or when it was acceptable to have a golliwog on marmalade jars?
Or when it was acceptable to promote segregation or slavery?

He's not old fashioned he's just racist - him and most of his party. They try and dress it up as something else in order to sound palatable to the general public but that doesn't change what they are.
 
How old fashioned?

Like back when it was acceptable to ridicule people because of their race?
Or when it was acceptable to have a golliwog on marmalade jars?
Or when it was acceptable to promote segregation or slavery?

He's not old fashioned he's just racist - him and most of his party. They try and dress it up as something else in order to sound palatable to the general public but that doesn't change what they are.

I believe a few of the candidates have said things that have been unacceptable. But then I would not dismiss lowly educated working class peoples views just because they have not expressed themselves well. Rather I would look to see if any of their fears were justified and then look to educate them in the correct way to express their concerns. Someone who is not able to express themselves as the rest of us would like does not mean that everything they say or do is wrong. They still deserve listening to and their views to be questioned but only on the basis of the view not how they express it.

So if someone has concerns over immigration(which for me is the least reason to consider voting UKIP) but they express it in a poorly worded way, we should still look at whether they view that immigration has caused problems and not just dismiss them out of hand because they did not express themselves as well as we would have liked.

No I consider Farage old fashioned because he does not seem to care about spin and does not appear to try to win voters over by sitting down at the start of the day and seeing what is in the news and shaping his press conferences on that. He talks about issues with less guff then the others even if you do not agree with his views.

For me coming from a working class and trades background I can see that mass immigration has been a problem so a points based system would seem sensible, what lets UKIP down is not knowing how that policy would work which is why I would mark them out as another Liberal party type of party.

I do not agree with their policies for defence which I find very old fashioned even if I do have now some concerns with Russia and how she is behaving towards people in latvia.

I do not agree with their views on gay marriage(I am all for it and found myself agreeing with Tatchell that the pension reforms were homophobic) I do not agree with their views on wind turbines even if I share the desire to not be dependant on Russian gas.

Their policies on Grammar schools is to be applauded in my view, they desire to attract only the best and brightest immigrants is also to be applauded because we have more then enough of our own underclass that can do low skilled jobs. I do not care if the underclass do not want to do them, they have had it to easy for to long and with proper reform of the benefit system they would be forced to work.

We have seen how when the tories forced long term "sick" to be tested those figures dropped. I imagine the underclass would kick off and moan about being forced into work but after time would accept it.

Segregation and slavery are obviously wrong that really goes without saying, but in their own way both Labour and the tories have promoted segregation through a multicultural dogma that led to sections of our society not wanting to integrate. Every time we have a home grown terror issue I blame Labour for it, because in my opinion it was a massive falling of Labour to promote multiculturalism over integration.

It is right that Muslims for example should be able to have time off from their workplaces to celebrate their festivals, but the ideology of the country should not have been to pander to different religions and views, except them and allow them for sure. But also to point out and maintain this is a Christian country where by tolerance is the order of the day.

No I do not think UKIP are racist even if some of their supporters use words and say thing in an unconstructed way that most of us would not I would also not dismiss their fears out of hand.
 
Have to agree about Farage, people can right him off but the reason he has/is doing well is the lack of the two major partys doing anything about what many see as the biggest problem in the country. Its funny that since he has made waves Cameron has spent time on telling everyone that he intends to do something about the fears of many voters.

It is also notable that all the parties even the liberals are talking about getting more laws back from the EU and changing our relationship with the EU. This for me is the big reason to admire UKIP. I feel they have been led down a trap to talk about immigration, yes caps are needed so it is sustainable. But it is not the issue that counts, that is the EU.

Now the other parties realise they have to talk about the EU and changing our relationship with the EU not that I believe any of them. I would never vote conservative after what Cameron did with the Lisbon treaty that was the last straw for me.

I will not be voting UKIP either as thought they tick a number of boxes with me and I am glad that through their existence they have forced the Liberal elite running this country to talk about issues they never want to talk about, I have queries and concerns with them.

So someone who has voted Conservative 5 times and Labour 2 times will spoil their ballot paper but instead of drawing a line right across the paper I shall do it in a way in keeping with my personality and draw a massive penis with cum shooting out over a sketch of the houses of parliaments.
 
Why not the whole way and just spunk on the ballot paper!?

I am in the same mindset.
And whilst I abhore UKIP, I think it is important they win just enough seats to have an impact but not enough to actually affect anything
 
So someone who has voted Conservative 5 times and Labour 2 times will spoil their ballot paper but instead of drawing a line right across the paper I shall do it in a way in keeping with my personality and draw a massive penis with cum shooting out over a sketch of the houses of parliaments.

I like this, but why do you like IDS? He's a bag of p1ss, a complete ponce and a phoney. IMO, the bald spot on his head is just to mark where an axe needs to be buried. Can't stand the qunt.

Why not the whole way and just spunk on the ballot paper!?

Some poor sod still has to handle the ballot paper though, and they are probably nice. If I could ensure that IDS had to eat my spunked on ballot paper, then I might do it -- but then, he's probably the sort of nonce-case that'd enjoy eating day old cum rags.
 
I like this, but why do you like IDS? He's a bag of p1ss, a complete ponce and a phoney. IMO, the bald spot on his head is just to mark where an axe needs to be buried. Can't stand the qunt.

Well you have not really said why you dislike him just insulted him.

I like his welfare reforms as I believe them to be fair and just. It is creating a society where there should no longer be a something for nothing culture that the labour party created.
 
Well you have not really said why you dislike him just insulted him.

I like his welfare reforms as I believe them to be fair and just. It is creating a society where there should no longer be a something for nothing culture that the labour party created.

I dislike him coz he's a man who lives rent free in a huge house owned by his wife's dad, yet he reckons he could live on £50 odd quid a week if he had to. Part of that estate that he lives on has received over a million quids worth of subsidies from the EU, but I suppose it's ok to be a ponce as long as it's done in 7 figures. He lied about his education, he failed as leader of the Tory party and even Osbourne thinks he's a dunce. Universal Credit is a disaster and is still largely unworkable. I haven't even scratched the surface of what an utter qunt the man is (and the very innocent people who have suffered from the reforms he's overseen) because he isn't worth the kilobytes, but I sincerely hope he gets his comeuppance.

IDS, the quiet qunt.
 
I dislike him coz he's a man who lives rent free in a huge house owned by his wife's dad, yet he reckons he could live on u£50 odd quid a week if he had to. Part of that estate that he lives on has received over a million quids worth of subsidies from the EU, but I suppose it's ok to be a ponce as long as it's done in 7 figures. He lied about his education, he failed as leader of the Tory party and even Osbourne thinks he's a dunce. Universal Credit is a disaster and is still largely unworkable. I haven't even scratched the surface of what an utter qunt the man is (and the very innocent people who have suffered from the reforms he's overseen) because he isn't worth the kilobytes, but I sincerely hope he gets his comeuppance.

IDS, the quiet qunt.

Not sure about the ins and outs of what your talking about. Though living in his wife's dad's house is not really relevant to whether his policies are good or not.

I have never been a fan of the EU subsidies and really do not think we should be in the EU. As for universal credit reform we would have to agree to disagree because I welcome any reform to welfare.
 
Not sure about the ins and outs of what your talking about. Though living in his wife's dad's house is not really relevant to whether his policies are good or not.

I have never been a fan of the EU subsidies and really do not think we should be in the EU. As for universal credit reform we would have to agree to disagree because I welcome any reform to welfare.
It is if you preach the politics of the jealous.
 
Not sure about the ins and outs of what your talking about. Though living in his wife's dad's house is not really relevant to whether his policies are good or not.

I have never been a fan of the EU subsidies and really do not think we should be in the EU. As for universal credit reform we would have to agree to disagree because I welcome any reform to welfare.

Spent £700m odd quid so far, delay after delay, to wrap up existing benefits under one banner...which is so unworkable that, after all the time and money spent, they can only manage 60,000 claimants (1% of all benefit claimants) with only the simplest types of claims able to be processed. It's a disaster, he must have pictures of Cameron up to no good to still be in a job.

As for the politics of the jealous, no, it's the politics of the sneering that IDS plays to -- "those people ought to have less, they should work for everything they have -- like me, with my rich wife and her dad's large country estate that I live on, subsidised by the EU taxpayers....oh no, wait, that's fine. I meant disabled people."
 
Spent £700m odd quid so far, delay after delay, to wrap up existing benefits under one banner...which is so unworkable that, after all the time and money spent, they can only manage 60,000 claimants (1% of all benefit claimants) with only the simplest types of claims able to be processed. It's a disaster, he must have pictures of Cameron up to no good to still be in a job.
The benefit bill is somewhere north of £100B last time I checked. If that drop in the ocean (or even 10 times that) can take a chunk out of that expenditure then it's good for the country.

Any money spent by government is too much, but as a yardstick to hold against your £700m (which is being spent to reduce expenditure in the longer term):

Union subsidies: £105M
Free TV licenses: £644M
Sick pay for public sector workers who wouldn't have received it in the private sector: £850M
Annual leave for public sector workers who wouldn't have received it in the private sector: £1.4B

As for the politics of the jealous, no, it's the politics of the sneering that IDS plays to -- "those people ought to have less, they should work for everything they have -- like me, with my rich wife and her dad's large country estate that I live on, subsidised by the EU taxpayers....oh no, wait, that's fine. I meant disabled people."

Now EU subsidies we can agree on - let's get rid of all EU subsidies and push through IDS's plans and then the country will be far better off.
 
It will lead to a series of hung parliaments, as no party will be able to form a majority. The system is exceedingly complex (counting the votes) and minor parties can gain representation through preference deals with other minors. Some candidates can win a seat with a primary votes of about a thousand. Their success owes more to the skill of mathematicians then real electoral support. Just look at the Australian senate, which uses this system. A number of nut jobs have been elected on the basis of these deals, rather than on gaining real support from the voters. Skilled preference deals are a way of rorting the system.
 
It will lead to a series of hung parliaments, as no party will be able to form a majority. The system is exceedingly complex (counting the votes) and minor parties can gain representation through preference deals with other minors. Some candidates can win a seat with a primary votes of about a thousand. Their success owes more to the skill of mathematicians then real electoral support. Just look at the Australian senate, which uses this system. A number of nut jobs have been elected on the basis of these deals, rather than on gaining real support from the voters. Skilled preference deals are a way of rorting the system.

I don't see 'a series of hung parliaments' as a point against proportional representation because that's how people vote.
 
It will lead to a series of hung parliaments, as no party will be able to form a majority. The system is exceedingly complex (counting the votes) and minor parties can gain representation through preference deals with other minors. Some candidates can win a seat with a primary votes of about a thousand. Their success owes more to the skill of mathematicians then real electoral support. Just look at the Australian senate, which uses this system. A number of nut jobs have been elected on the basis of these deals, rather than on gaining real support from the voters. Skilled preference deals are a way of rorting the system.

But the Lib Dems are in power currently due to a deal. They're expected to still gain the 3rd highest number of seats despite a predicted 5th highest percentage of the vote.
 
I think the current system gives us the best chance of a government in line with the wishes of the people that vote
 
I think the current system gives us the best chance of a government in line with the wishes of the people that vote

Care to elaborate on this? I don't think it does. I think the existing system has turned off a lot of people from politics and you have people voting in large numbers for parties that they probably wouldn't want in government but who they feel best represents their major concerns that they feel the major parties don't take seriously:

SNP: Scottish voters feel unrepresented in West Minster and that Scottish left-wing/socialism isn't represented in government (majority of Scots against maintenance of UK 's nuclear weapons program versus majority of UK in support but tiffany is based in Scotland).
UKIP: Majority of UK population against remaining in the EU but not been listened to by the major parties. Many feel immigration too high but again feel major parties haven't been tough enough on this issue.

Greens: Many people feel main parties don't do enough to reduce emissions, improve public transport infrastructure and address rising poverty levels.

I could go on...
 
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