Crab.C.Nesbitt
Gheorge Popescu
Err are you sure about that?…..https://www.energylivenews.com/2023/01/23/france-now-owns-90-of-edf/
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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
- Start date
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
The government owns most of EDF, but not all (they were forced by the EU to sell shares in 2004). And EDF also aren't allowed a monopoly of production or distribution of energy in France - again the EU forced them to give that up 1999. So not nationalised, and it's nationalised system was actively attacked by EU directives.
Crab.C.Nesbitt
Gheorge Popescu
But the article state that they are looking to renationalise edf. They would not be looking t to do this if it could not be done under eu law.
Who is poorer though? Prior to 2016 there was rampant globalisation which led to huge inequalities of wealth. Some jobs that were deemed trivial have received significant pay rises since such as HGV drivers as an example.
You can't really say x or y have suffered and it's all down to Brexit, have you not seen the incompetent government of the last few years who have squandered billions and not really come up with any plans they're able to stick too. When Labour come in I'm sure things will pick up because they have some good sensible policies they'll actually implement instead of squabbling over and they'll provide businesses with certainty - see this today for example https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-over-green-energy-says-boss-of-ftse-100-firm
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
You're in a minority on this one, even Leave voters think Brexit has made things more expensive and has had a negative impact on the economy:
Seven-in-ten voters say Brexit has hurt the economy and made living costs higher, with even Leave voters saying Britain is now worse off
Asked how Brexit has affected the UK economy, 73% now say it has made it worse, compared to just 4% who say it has made it better.
A further 78% of voters say that Brexit has made the cost-of-living in the UK worse, compared to just 2% who say the opposite.
https://www.bylinesupplement.com/p/brexit-has-made-britain-a-more-expensive
But then that was predicted. Aka project fear. Aka experts.
It may or may not be true, there's a cost of living crisis and parts of Brexit probably don't help but to put it all down to Brexit is just silly. Inflation is sky high in lots of countries including EU countries.
You do seem to love talking about Brexit
but you should remember I didn't clamour for it, shout about it or post about it non stop - there was a referendum and I picked my side. Luckily you can now vote for a government that can't hide behind EU legislation now and can be held to a higher level of accountability.
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
It may or may not be true, there's a cost of living crisis and parts of Brexit probably don't help but to put it all down to Brexit is just silly. Inflation is sky high in lots of countries including EU countries.
You do seem to love talking about Brexit
A government isn’t anymore free from the EU now than they were before. We still follow most EU laws and regulations. And to address things like battery tariffs for cars we have a far more complex ongoing negotiation. So no a uk government is not free of the EU anymore than it was prior. In some ways they have a little more freedom but in meaningful ways they actually have less freedom and more hassle as we have to work to someone else’s rules. Same as before with less control. Ironic eh?
As for the economic picture the government predicted a circa 4% dent in GDP compared to staying in, and that has actually borne out. Some have it higher at 5% with many millions in lost tax. And lost wealth for the nation. https://www.itv.com/news/2022-12-20/brexit-costs-government-40-billion-a-year-in-lost-tax-revenue
On top of that there was the massive strain on our government with energy and resources spent on brexit, probably hampering Covid response and how much the UK borrowed.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
Can you explain how one goes about nationalising transport and (especially) energy?
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Just a simple requisition of both the infrastructure and the service providers. The same as happened in the 1940s.
Then pay Thatcher's oligarchs some compensation, but frugally and over the long term.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
So for energy - the national grid, power stations, wind turbines and solar fields and British Gas. You wouldn't then need to take over the UK arms of the other energy companies if British Gas became the only one permitted to operate.
monkeybarry
Ian Walker
Unfortunately since neo-liberalism the world has become so embedded with the markets that such a move would almost certainly create a huge financial crash.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
It would be a bit like pulling off a plaster, but medium to long term we'd be massively more resilent, sustainable and wealthy if we owned all our own energy, water and transport again
SpurMeUp
Jimmy Cantrell
..and ineffecient, and wasteful. Did you notice what happened in communist countries? Don't get me wrong I am all for government earning tax payers money, and saving their taxes, but that should come out of an opposite scenerio: government copying private enterprise. Nationalisation in the mould of communism is ineffecient, unreliable and probably worse. If we look at the French setup, they make thing work just fine. Owning 90% of their energy supply is just fine. Many of our essential services are run by the french government! Isn't EDF french state owned more or less? Couriers (DPD is owned by the French post-office). And the profits they make go back into state coffers allow people to pay less tax. What is wrong with their setup working from within the EU?
So guarantee that no business would ever invest in the UK for fear of having their assets seized.
monkeybarry
Ian Walker
Indeed. That's the point I was making above @Gutter Boy . It's hideous, but the genie is out of the box with neo liberalism and cannot be put back in without economic, and probably political, isolation and massive damage.
With transport or specifically trains they could wait for the franchises to expire and take them over. What that would do for business confidence I don't know.
I'm definitely in favour of the govt owning stakes in larger infrastructure projects such as the new nuclear power stations.
I don't think buying in at the end of a franchise is an issue. Anyone looking to invest just wants a degree of certainty - a 10 year franchise is certainty. Taking a 10 year franchise and having the govt seize your assets for what they think is a fair value absolutely isn't.
The problem with nationalising rail specifically is that it's a fudging brickshow. Staff are paid far too much and have too much control, passenger numbers are dwindling and everyone is resisting modernisation. The quality of rail service may improve if nationalised but only because we'd all be funding it.
ricky2tricky4city
Tom Huddlestone
That sounds more like a problem for a private company thinking of taking on a franchise