Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Grays_1890]

Scotland wanted to leave the UK and now they are having a pop about us wanting to leave the EU, that laughable.

But it is in my mind a pretty good comparison because Scotland wanted to leave for the same reasons. They felt their contributions outweighed what they gain and thats what we feel.

We are what? 120bn into the EU more than what we have gain out? Thats right is it not? And whilst the rest of the EU descends into a hole of financial hardship and recession, like Greece, Italy, France and soon to follow Germany we feel we can do more out the EU and in.

Some raving loony outside Westminster with his fudging silly hat wont change my view on it.

Oh and PS, people said the same on voting trends before the last referendum.

 

[Grays_1890]

jeopardising drugs and care in the NHS, £40b spent on brexit planning etc.
What is not true?

You are literally kidding if you think under spending in the NHS or public services is due to Brexit. Its been happening for years pal and I know because I have family in all the services so don't make out the EU or being in the EU has or gives any benefit to any of them because if don't. yeh you can come up with your fag box sums, like the bus promise ironically and say "We are wasting money on Brexit that money could be spent on the NHS" but look at the history of spending on the NHS and the way its declined in years its got fudge all to do with Brexit.

 

[scaramanga]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47893542

"On Wednesday, he posted on Instagram that "drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters" should "repent" because "only Jesus saves", and made similar remarks on Twitter"

Can you be sacked because your religious beliefs believe so? I know religion is changing and the stand point on abortion and gay rights are changing slowly.

I am pro gay rights and same sex marriage so just interested in peoples views on this.

There's no place whatsoever in society for people with his views.

Holding those views because his imaginary friend tells him to is just doubling down on the stupid.

 

[Grays_1890]

There's no place whatsoever in society for people with his views.

Holding those views because his imaginary friend tells him to is just doubling down on the stupid.

Yeh I agree, can religion be a cover up for these views ever?

I always feel the left of the UK views on this is Gay, human, womens rights until they come to some religions when they tolerate the views because they don't wish to cause offence to that religion. But one man you can condemn.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Scotland wanted to leave the UK and now they are having a pop about us wanting to leave the EU, that laughable.

But it is in my mind a pretty good comparison because Scotland wanted to leave for the same reasons. They felt their contributions outweighed what they gain and thats what we feel.

We are what? 120bn into the EU more than what we have gain out? Thats right is it not? And whilst the rest of the EU descends into a hole of financial hardship and recession, like Greece, Italy, France and soon to follow Germany we feel we can do more out the EU and in.

Some raving loony outside Westminster with his fudging silly hat wont change my view on it.

Oh and PS, people said the same on voting trends before the last referendum.

Numbers are a bit off. "In 2017 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4 billion. So the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was estimated at nearly £9 billion."

Even without Brexit having taken place we are losing much more than that per year. Apparently £40b/ year or 800m a week. https://www.theguardian.com/busines...t-80bn-since-vote-bank-of-england-rate-setter A further £4b on Brexit planning which seems absurd. Why so much!? So no we won't have anything left over for the NHS. Its the opposit, we will have less money as a result of Brexit.

• Since the vote the EU grew more than the UK.
• Our economy is tied to Europe we can't ignore them - we are geographically in Europe of course. Brexit won't change that. Things happen in the US and China which affect us too. So whether Greece is doing well or not, really makes no odds for us. We are not in the Euro so it doesn't affect our currency.
• Logic won't change your view, so maybe the hat and loon has a better chance!

 

[r-u-s-x]

Yeh I agree, can religion be a cover up for these views ever?

I always feel the left of the UK views on this is Gay, human, womens rights until they come to some religions when they tolerate the views because they don't wish to cause offence to that religion. But one man you can condemn.

If a Muslim sports person said similar things I think they would be given similar response. It is "easier" to condemn Christians as they are not a minority in this country but this type of thing would be condemned imo.

I think the left largely is aware of punching up vs punching down and this is a big part of reactions, some are over the top with it.

 

[Grays_1890]

If a Muslim sports person said similar things I think they would be given similar response. It is "easier" to condemn Christians as they are not a minority in this country but this type of thing would be condemned imo.

I think the left largely is aware of punching up vs punching down and this is a big part of reactions, some are over the top with it.

Hmm not sure I totally agree

 

[the dza]

Ruling out no-deal in their own manifesto - which lost - is one thing. Publicly and openly undermining the government of your own country in international negotiations of this magnitude is quite another.

But maybe you're right. Maybe there won't be a single Labour voter who sees it that way...guess we'll have to agree to differ on that.

I didn't say "there won't be a single Labour voter" who won't agree with you. I disagree with your initial assessment that it's going to a "significant minority" who will change their vote over Labour's position on 'no-deal'. Simply because Labour's position re. no-deal has not changed since the last election. On that, we will have to agree to differ.

 

[Grays_1890]

Numbers are a bit off. "In 2017 the UK government paid £13 billion to the EU budget, and EU spending on the UK was forecast to be £4 billion. So the UK’s ‘net contribution’ was estimated at nearly £9 billion."

Even without Brexit having taken place we are losing much more than that per year. Apparently £40b/ year or 800m a week. https://www.theguardian.com/busines...t-80bn-since-vote-bank-of-england-rate-setter A further £4b on Brexit planning which seems absurd. Why so much!? So no we won't have anything left over for the NHS. Its the opposit, we will have less money as a result of Brexit.

• Since the vote the EU grew more than the UK.
• Our economy is tied to Europe we can't ignore them - we are geographically in Europe of course. Brexit won't change that. Things happen in the US and China which affect us too. So whether Greece is doing well or not, really makes no odds for us. We are not in the Euro so it doesn't affect our currency.
• Logic won't change your view, so maybe the hat and loon has a better chance!

But thats warp logic.

The UK growth based on not being actually fully out the EU? Hardly a fair yard stick is it? If this was 2 years of actually being out the EU and you said to me the same I would accept your argument 100%. But are you seriously giving us the growth comparisons whilst we are in this holding zone? Thats slippery if you ask me, as much so than the brexit lies you remain bleet on about. I am sure being where we are will cost as much much more than being in the EU whilst we kick the can down the road till October but thats not BREXIT because we have yet to leave, that cost is down to the fact we are sat here doing nothing, neither remain or leave. I could attribute the loss you mention to those like you and the man with the megaphone and all the MPs who reneged on leave and caused mischief and have drawn out the process.

 

[SpurMeUp]

You are literally kidding if you think under spending in the NHS or public services is due to Brexit. Its been happening for years pal and I know because I have family in all the services so don't make out the EU or being in the EU has or gives any benefit to any of them because if don't. yeh you can come up with your fag box sums, like the bus promise ironically and say "We are wasting money on Brexit that money could be spent on the NHS" but look at the history of spending on the NHS and the way its declined in years its got fudge all to do with Brexit.

How many NHS nurses come from the EU?

If the UK economy suffers (which is has post vote) where will the government stop fresh funding going to? Chances are the NHS.

We've had 10 years of austerity. If we didn't have Brexit we would have just finished paying back all the money from the fiancial crash and be able to put more into the NHS.

The Dover port works becuase of free movement of goods. Stop that, and you fuk up the supply chain for everything we import: from food to car parts to vital NHS drugs.

 

[SpurMeUp]

But thats warp logic.

The UK growth based on not being actually fully out the EU? Hardly a fair yard stick is it? If this was 2 years of actually being out the EU and you said to me the same I would accept your argument 400%. But are you seriously giving us the growth comparisons whilst we are in this holding zone? Thats slippery if you ask me, as much so than the brexit lies you remain bleet on about. I am sure being where we are will cost as much much more than being in the EU whilst we kick the can down the road till October but thats not BREXIT because we have yet to leave, that cost is down to the fact we are sat here doing nothing, neither remain or leave. I could attribute the loss you mention to those like you and the man with the megaphone and all the MPs who reneged on leave and caused mischief and have drawn out the process.

I would suggest, and all economic data suggests, the economic effect of being fully out would be worse. How much worse depends on the type of exit. The harder it is the bigger the impact. That is not my opinion that is the Bank of England projects, and our government HM Tresearury's projections. Many companies are staying in the UK becuase Brexit may not happen. If it does, there are number who will follow the likes of Sony, Panisonic and some of the fiance jobs that have already gone.

Do you own a home? If so it is worth a fair bit less than it was a couple of years ago. And in the next few months it will probably be worth even less. If we have a hard exit, it could easily loose a third of its value from what is was pre-vote - imo. I am not making this up. It is sadly true. You are in denial.

The other problem is, you can not tell me what we gain by leaving (it is suggested there is some mystery jackpot, but no one can outlined it. Why?). I can very clearly outline how the economy is impacted by leaving. How less free trade effects our economy.

 

[Grays_1890]

How many NHS nurses come from the EU?

If the UK economy suffers (which is has post vote) where will the government stop fresh funding going to? Chances are the NHS.

We've had 10 years of austerity. If we didn't have Brexit we would have just finished paying back all the money from the fiancial crash and be able to put more into the NHS.

The Dover port works because of free movement of goods. Stop that, and you fuk up the supply chain for everything we import: from food to car parts to vital NHS drugs.

Nurses can still come in from the EU but that has not been the main issue, the main issue has come from years of cuts that are unrelated to Brexit, lets be honest here and from lack of beds, appointments places and overcrowding on the NHS.

 

[glasgowspur]

Scotland wanted to leave the UK and now they are having a pop about us wanting to leave the EU, that laughable.

But it is in my mind a pretty good comparison because Scotland wanted to leave for the same reasons. They felt their contributions outweighed what they gain and thats what we feel.

We are what? 120bn into the EU more than what we have gain out? Thats right is it not? And whilst the rest of the EU descends into a hole of financial hardship and recession, like Greece, Italy, France and soon to follow Germany we feel we can do more out the EU and in.

Some raving loony outside Westminster with his fudging silly hat wont change my view on it.

Oh and PS, people said the same on voting trends before the last referendum.

Scotland did not want to leave the Union, we had a vote (maybe you missed it) and voted to stay.
This frustates the brick out me, don't listen to idiots like @Gutter Boy who had a friend in Scotland that wants indy and thinks that's definative. (still waiting GB on an answer to why Scotland should have another vote after a decisive win but Brexit shouldn't with a hairline majority).
Listening to the SNP and thinking that's what every Scot thinks is like reading GG politics and thinking GB Spur me up and dta speak for all of us.

 

[Grays_1890]

I would suggest, and all economic data suggests, the economic effect of being fully out would be worse. How much worse depends on the type of exit. The harder it is the bigger the impact. That is not my opinion that is the Bank of England projects, and our government HM Tresearury's projections. Many companies are staying in the UK becuase Brexit may not happen. If it does, there are number who will follow the likes of Sony, Panisonic and some of the fiance jobs that have already gone.

Do you own a home? If so it is worth a fair bit less than it was a couple of years ago. And in the next few months it will probably be worth even less. If we have a hard exit, it could easily loose a third of its value from what is was pre-vote - imo. I am not making this up. It is sadly true. You are in denial.

The other problem is, you can not tell me what we gain by leaving (it is suggested there is some mystery jackpot, but no one can outlined it. Why?). I can very clearly outline how the economy is impacted by leaving. How less free trade effects our economy.

But your projections and opinions and taken from expert views are all in fantasy land as much as you think Brexit is.

There has been nowhere near the damage on jobs in the city of companies leaving that was predicted by remain, nowhere near at all. 700 jobs in the financial services sector have left London last year as oppose to the 30,000 - 250,000 projected by various experts. You keep mentioning leave having no clue, I would say the same about you and remain. You just stick your finger in the air and grab the first stat that back sup your argument from another remainer regardless of accuracy, you also quoted many a time companies that left quoting brexit was not an issue and made up some theories that it must have been then you like to lambaste people for being inaccurate.

Remain have about as much knowledge about the future as a cabbage, its their persistence in delaying and trying to turn the result that is causing carnage not actually being out the EU, the facts are we are not out the EU yet you use the delay as an example of why being out the EU would be bad even though the delay is actually totally unrelated.

 

[Grays_1890]

Listening to the SNP and thinking that's what every Scot thinks is like reading GG politics and thinking GB Spur me up and dta speak for all of us.

Unfortunately that is your representation right there

 

[the dza]

Scotland did not want to leave the Union, we had a vote (maybe you missed it) and voted to stay.
This frustates the brick out me, don't listen to idiots like @Gutter Boy who had a friend in Scotland that wants indy and thinks that's definative. (still waiting GB on an answer to why Scotland should have another vote after a decisive win but Brexit shouldn't with a hairline majority).
Listening to the SNP and thinking that's what every Scot thinks is like reading GG politics and thinking GB Spur me up and dta speak for all of us.

Well said.

 

[glasgowspur]

Unfortunately that is your representation right there

And GHod do they make us suffer for it.

 

[Grays_1890]

And GHod do they make us suffer for it.

Whats your view on the SNP?

 

[Parklaner81]

I didn't say "there won't be a single Labour voter" who won't agree with you. I disagree with your initial assessment that it's going to a "significant minority" who will change their vote over Labour's position on 'no-deal'. Simply because Labour's position re. no-deal has not changed since the last election. On that, we will have to agree to differ.

To re-align the question just slightly, what kind of proportion of Labour-voting leave supporters do you think will be satisifed with Labour's overall position on Brexit?

I personally think the no-deal stance is the one that has the most potential to really alienate their supporters (and I base that opinion partly on the fact that I am a former Labour voter myself, and how I would feel if I were still so today), but I think it goes wider than that. I personally can't imagine that very many Labour-voting brexiteers at all are going to be overly enamoured with their party, as at today. Again, I sure wouldn't be.

What might well come to Labour's rescue in this regard though is the anti-tory sentiment @nayimfromthehalfwayline has already referenced.

 

[the dza]

To re-align the question just slightly, what kind of proportion of Labour-voting leave supporters do you think will be satisifed with Labour's position on Brexit?

I personally think the no-deal stance is the one that has the most potential to really alienate their supporters (and I base that opinion partly on the fact that I am a former Labour voter myself, and how I would feel if I were still so today), but I think it goes wider than that. I personally can't imagine that very many Labour-voting brexiteers at all are going to be overly enamoured with their party, as at today. Again, I sure wouldn't be.

What might well come to Labour's rescue in this regard though is the anti-tory sentiment @nayimfromthehalfwayline has already referenced.

I would guess that most Labour leave voters would be dis-satisfied with Labour's position on Brexit, as it lands somewhere between soft-Brexit and a 2nd referendum. And most leave voters seem more on the side of a harder-Brexit and most certainly against a 2nd referendum.

Is Brexit the number 1 issue for Labour-leave voters or is it some combination of all the other stuff? I don't know. IMO, if you are a leave voter AND Brexit is most important to you, above all else, then you probably didn't vote for Labour in 2017. (When I say "you" I am speaking generally, I don't mean you personally). My best guess is that if you are a Labour leave voter and the other stuff together is more important to you than Brexit, then you would probably still vote Labour if there was a general election tomorrow, despite preferring Labour did Brexit differently.