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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Danishfurniturelover said:
It would be acceptable to me of an ambulance crew refused to treat someone who had not had the vaccine.

You can throw fatties and smokers in with them as well as people who do not deserve tax payers money.

If people are in trouble at sea in British waters then they have a duty to help them. But and the point I keep making is to go into French waters and rescue people not even returning them to the nearest port is wrong in my view.

Reports saying people will kill themselves or children if returned to France are very serious. In this country at least attempted suicide is illegal and would result in your arrest. It is clearly the government's that are failing people here.

But the lifeboat association are making the situation worse by going into French waters.
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Our crews are tasked by HM Coastguard in the UK and the Irish Coast Guard in Ireland to rescue anyone who is at risk of drowning. They go home after a shout secure in the knowledge that without their help, the person they rescued may not have been able to be reunited with their own family. That is why they do what they do.

‘These same principles apply to our lifesaving work in the Channel. We do not judge those we rescue – where we believe there is a risk to life at sea, we will always launch in response to a call from HM Coastguard. We want to be absolutely clear that we are incredibly proud of the work our volunteer lifeboat crews do to rescue vulnerable people in distress.

‘When our lifeboats launch, we operate under International Maritime Law, which states we are permitted and indeed obligated to enter all waters regardless of territories for search and rescue purposes. And when it comes to rescuing those people attempting to cross the Channel, we do not question why they got into trouble, who they are or where they come from. All we need to know is that they need our help.

‘Our crews do what they do because they believe that anyone can drown, but no one should. They believe in and remain focused on our core purpose, along with every member of the RNLI, to save lives at sea.’

https://rnli.org/news-and-media/202...arian-work-of-the-rnli-in-the-english-channel
 
Glenda's Legs said:
Our crews are tasked by HM Coastguard in the UK and the Irish Coast Guard in Ireland to rescue anyone who is at risk of drowning. They go home after a shout secure in the knowledge that without their help, the person they rescued may not have been able to be reunited with their own family. That is why they do what they do.

‘These same principles apply to our lifesaving work in the Channel. We do not judge those we rescue – where we believe there is a risk to life at sea, we will always launch in response to a call from HM Coastguard. We want to be absolutely clear that we are incredibly proud of the work our volunteer lifeboat crews do to rescue vulnerable people in distress.

‘When our lifeboats launch, we operate under International Maritime Law, which states we are permitted and indeed obligated to enter all waters regardless of territories for search and rescue purposes. And when it comes to rescuing those people attempting to cross the Channel, we do not question why they got into trouble, who they are or where they come from. All we need to know is that they need our help.

‘Our crews do what they do because they believe that anyone can drown, but no one should. They believe in and remain focused on our core purpose, along with every member of the RNLI, to save lives at sea.’

https://rnli.org/news-and-media/202...arian-work-of-the-rnli-in-the-english-channel
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It is still wrong in my view and that statement does not change the fact that instead of returning people to the quickest shoreline which would be France when in French waters. Maybe some of the rescued need medical assistance. Instead they bring them to the UK. To do so makes them complicit in people smuggling and helps to keep going a very cruel trade in human lives.
 
Seedy Ron said:
Well that mercifully says more about you than it ever will the paramedics in the ambulance service.

And attempted suicide hasn't been illegal in Britain since the 1960s.
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Why do they arrest people then?

Actually saw this at East Worthing train station 3 years ago. I need to report Sussex police if this is the case. They pulled the guy off the bridge and arrested him. Saw it with my own eyes.

We all thought the Police had done a fantastic job but now it turns out they abused their powers? Utter bastards.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
It is still wrong in my view and that statement does not change the fact that instead of returning people to the quickest shoreline which would be France when in French waters. Maybe some of the rescued need medical assistance. Instead they bring them to the UK. To do so makes them complicit in people smuggling and helps to keep going a very cruel trade in human lives.
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I for one don't expect RNLI volunteers to then have to continue to France and find somewhere to leave the migrants. Maybe you do expect that, but the RNLI are doing exactly what they are charged to do - respond to search and rescue calls from HM Coastguard and deliver those rescued to the UK Border Force. To accuse them of being complicit in people smuggling is just plain wrong when they are doing what they are asked to do, and voluntarily so.
Better political co-operation across the Channel may well be needed (unlikely under this home secretary imo) but blaming the RNLI is picking on the wrong target.
 
Seedy Ron said:
Who's saying that? Which services?

If an ambulance crew refused life saving treatment to a patient, because of that patient's vaccine record, and instead left them to their fate, would that be acceptable to you?

Similarly, if a lifeboat crew left an ill equipped rubber dinghy full of people to their fate, despite having a very good idea of what that fate would be, is that acceptable to you?


You keep saying stuff like this in some bizarre effort to make it sound like you have a moral leg to stand on. At the point the RNLI are involved, the boat is already at sea. That multiple and continual failures of government lead to that point is nothing to do with the RNLI. They are stepping in to prevent the deaths at sea of those human beings. Your apparent solution of leaving them to it, so that the danger of trying to cross the channel becomes grotesquely apparent on the beaches of the UK and France, as if that will somehow stop the practice, is frankly inhuman.
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The withholding has been mentioned on here a few times recently. I don't pay particular attention to who posts what most the time.

Would i be happy with that, generally no.
But we do need to acknowledge that there are people out there who feel strongly enough about vaccines that it is an issue for them.

If a crew of a boat genuinely took to a boat in good faith and encountered trouble, no i have no issues.
If people take to a boat that is unsafe or attempted to cross a body of water by other means that are unsafe then yes i would be unhappy.
Should it stop a rescue, no. But there needs to be consequences for those actions, and that goes for everyone.
 
Robspur12 said:
That’s ridiculous. Perhaps the RNLI shouldn’t rescue anyone if by saving lives they encourages anyone, migrant or otherwise to take more risks in the sea.
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Of course they should save them, they just shouldn't complete their journeys for them.
 
LutonSpurs said:
Vaccines aren't mandated. Number one. Their journey is one of desperation in search of a better future. Apples and Oranges. I'm not sure how you make the analogy at all.
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Desperately trying to escape the atrocities being put on them in Northern France?

I mean, Calais is a fudging brickhole ill grant you. But bad enough to risk drowning to escape? It's not Liverpool
 
Glenda's Legs said:
Our crews are tasked by HM Coastguard in the UK and the Irish Coast Guard in Ireland to rescue anyone who is at risk of drowning. They go home after a shout secure in the knowledge that without their help, the person they rescued may not have been able to be reunited with their own family. That is why they do what they do.

‘These same principles apply to our lifesaving work in the Channel. We do not judge those we rescue – where we believe there is a risk to life at sea, we will always launch in response to a call from HM Coastguard. We want to be absolutely clear that we are incredibly proud of the work our volunteer lifeboat crews do to rescue vulnerable people in distress.

‘When our lifeboats launch, we operate under International Maritime Law, which states we are permitted and indeed obligated to enter all waters regardless of territories for search and rescue purposes. And when it comes to rescuing those people attempting to cross the Channel, we do not question why they got into trouble, who they are or where they come from. All we need to know is that they need our help.

‘Our crews do what they do because they believe that anyone can drown, but no one should. They believe in and remain focused on our core purpose, along with every member of the RNLI, to save lives at sea.’

https://rnli.org/news-and-media/202...arian-work-of-the-rnli-in-the-english-channel
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So when they pick people up from French waters, why not drop them off in Calais?
 
scaramanga said:
Saving them and dumping them on a beach in Calais doesn't encourage more to try.

Saving them and completing their trip for them does.
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If can forward the data on how many times the RNLI are in French waters and how many rescues they complete in those waters we can assess your claim.

I reckon it's skinny, and as a number of people they are helping out (yes let's not forget they are helping these people out), negligible.
 
Just to check, out of mild concern, since I thought Brexit was a ludicrous fantasy espoused only by a couple of shut-in weirdos and that still happened, exactly how fat would one have to be to denied medical treatment in Scara and Danish’s Utopian Britain? Might a BMI of 25 be the cut-off? What would happen if you overdid the hospital food after you were weighed and admitted? Would there be sanctions for doctors who snuck out on their own time (like those evil lifeboatmen) to dole out pills to lardarses?
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
If can forward the data on how many times the RNLI are in French waters and how many rescues they complete in those waters we can assess your claim.

I reckon it's skinny, and as a number of people they are helping out (yes let's not forget they are helping these people out), negligible.
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Hence my suggestion that they should claim those they pick up in UK waters were in French and drop them in Calais anyway.
 
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