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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

scaramanga said:
If we're not better off out, then everyone (including the EU) benefits from a free trade agreement.

So what's the EU reasoning for.hurting it's own members by restricting that agreement?
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It does, and from the EU perspective, it will negotiate for a FTA that benefits its members . Taking your argument to its illogical conclusion, why not give the UK everything it wants because trade is good for everyone. That path means the EU is no longer a trading bloc - eventually no regs, no environmental concerns, no workers rights etc. I'm sure that sounds delightful to your lord business instincts, but that approach has already failed us as a species frankly. The market does not know better.
 
Rorschach said:
It does, and from the EU perspective, it will negotiate for a FTA that benefits its members . Taking your argument to its illogical conclusion, why not give the UK everything it wants because trade is good for everyone. That path means the EU is no longer a trading bloc - eventually no regs, no environmental concerns, no workers rights etc. I'm sure that sounds delightful to your lord business instincts, but that approach has already failed us as a species frankly. The market does not know better.
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The FTA that benefits its members most is a completely free one.

So far, the only argument the EU has been able to put against that is that our businesses would be in a better position to trade than theirs from the outside. That sounds like something their businesses would want too.
 
scaramanga said:
Each country regulates its own.

You're still avoiding the question;

Nobody in the EU will buy our products as they don't want them, right?
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accidentally correct?

this is exactly what's going to happen, EU consumers (and Australian, Canadian, Indian and the rest of the world come to that*) want goods that meet their standards, outside of the EU we won't be able to produce said goods at a price that isn't higher than from EU producers

*until we have specific trade deals with them that include regulatory guarantees, that'll take about 7 years each to conclude
 
Baleforce said:
accidentally correct?

this is exactly what's going to happen, EU consumers (and Australian, Canadian, Indian and the rest of the world come to that*) want goods that meet their standards, outside of the EU we won't be able to produce said goods at a price that isn't higher than from EU producers

*until we have specific trade deals with them that include regulatory guarantees, that'll take about 7 years each to conclude
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In which case, there's no need for the EU to regulate our products.

If their consumers don't want them, they don't have to fear us selling to their consumers.
 
scaramanga said:
If the EU has to artificially make being out worse than being in (by refusing deals to those who were members that are offered to those who never were) then the EU has no actual value and everyone would be better off out.

If being out is genuinely worse than being in, then the EU is needlessly causing itself pain by punishing us without reason.
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Bit of a straw man that. If the EU has no actual value and we're better off out, why are we working towards a trade deal with our biggest trading market and closest geographic nations?

Probably, because in this world, for any country, it makes sense to have a free trade agreement with your biggest trading market and your closest geographic nations.
 
scaramanga said:
The FTA that benefits its members most is a completely free one.

So far, the only argument the EU has been able to put against that is that our businesses would be in a better position to trade than theirs from the outside. That sounds like something their businesses would want too.
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You are effectively arguing against trading blocs, regulations, standards. A vertible race to the bottom.

This may be moot anyway, as the Boris has moved on the LPF and we're down to the fish.
 
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Diamond Lights said:
Bit of a straw man that. If the EU has no actual value and we're better off out, why are we working towards a trade deal with our biggest trading market and closest geographic nations?

Probably, because in this world, for any country, it makes sense to have a free trade agreement with your biggest trading market and your closest geographic nations.
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I suspect because trade deals are good, supranational Borgs are bad.
 
Rorschach said:
You are effectively arguing against trading blocs, regulations, standards. A vertible race to the bottom.
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I'm arguing against trading blocs that use protectionism to prop up inefficient markets.

Free trade is good, there's no need for it to go beyond that.

Rorschach said:
This may be moot anyway, as the Brois has moved on the LPF and we're down to the fish.
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What have you heard about that?

I still don't get it with the fish. If the French care that much about what goes on in our waters, why did they spend the last few hundred years losing all the battles over them?
 
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AuroRaman said:
Perhaps. We are certainly in a time where labelling is at its most prevalent without digging deeper.

Also to be clear, I don’t think everyone that voted for Brexit is an England shirt wearing racist. I was just responding to the example.
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Glad to hear that mate and good for you, so many of those who lost the MAJORITY vote have to use the racist card to hide behind.
 
Rather than dynaically aligning whenever the EU change their setup I'd rather just have tariffs leaving us free for the gov't of the day to rule as they see fit too.
 
scaramanga said:
Sovereignty is the ability to set our own rules to suit what we need as a country. We make our own internal rules, we trade with whomever, however we like, we shape our economy to suit what we require most.

It's at best disingenuous and at worst half-witted to paint it as some kind of slogan for England shirt wearing racists.
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Sovereignty is what we had as a member of the EU. As the referendum and the triggering of Article 50 showed we could leave if we wanted to. That is a sovereign decision. The problem is we still want the benefits of being part of the EU club, to be able to access their market but do not want to abide by the rules of the other club members. Effectively making their own industries and services less competitive than ours.

When you want all the benefits but for them to bear all the costs that's not sovereignty, that's imperialism. We are rather good at that.
 
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Robspur12 said:
Sovereignty is what we had as a member of the EU. As the referendum and the triggering of Article 15 showed we could leave if we wanted to. That is a sovereign decision. The problem is we still want the benefits of being part of the EU club, to be able to access their market but do not want to abide to the rules of the other club members. Effectively making their own industries and services less competitive than ours.

When you want all the benefits but for them to bear all the costs that's not sovereignty, that's imperialism. We are rather good at that.
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Cool, let's do that then.
 
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