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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

scaramanga said:
Current UK median earnings are £28,667

Without getting into too much detail about what I earn, it's safe to say that it's more than the median.

Edit:
My total family cost of private healthcare is a little under £4K and should probably be considered as the relevant figure if we were to assume my wife didn't want to work and mine was the only income. Figures still stand up to the same scrutiny though.
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You earn £28,668!? It's not how big your pay packet is, its what you do with it?

So £4k for the private policy which your company pays vs something similar in tax going towards the NHS? Tax covers 999, A&E and probably other things like Cancer, Pregnancy etc which the private policy may not.

It does seem like a horrendous amount of money working people pay. I think we could charge people £10 for missed appointments and a few other things to save everyone money. There is soooo much waste in government. There needs to be a cultural shift. Working bottom up, top down, in every direction.
 
SpurMeUp said:
You earn £28,668!? It's not how big your pay packet is, its what you do with it?

So £4k for the private policy which your company pays vs something similar in tax going towards the NHS? Tax covers 999, A&E and probably other things like Cancer, Pregnancy etc which the private policy may not.

It does seem like a horrendous amount of money working people pay. I think we could charge people £10 for missed appointments and a few other things to save everyone money. There is soooo much waste in government. There needs to be a cultural shift. Working bottom up, top down, in every direction.
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Not something similar, no. My tax & NI bill is more than that, before you take into account all the VAT, duty, etc. I pay.
 
scaramanga said:
Not something similar, no. My tax & NI bill is more than that, before you take into account all the VAT, duty, etc. I pay.
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Isn’t it just NI that’s relevant? I don’t even look at how much tax is swiped. Best not to.

Read an interesting debate about taxation. Will try and find it again tomorrow. In the meantime how do you feel about the Conservatives dropping Biz tax cuts to pay for the NHS?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
SpurMeUp said:
Isn’t it just NI that’s relevant? I don’t even look at how much tax is swiped. Best not to.
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Yeah, it's NI that pays for the NHS and I've got a bridge you might want to buy!

SpurMeUp said:
Read an interesting debate about taxation. Will try and find it again tomorrow. In the meantime how do you feel about the Conservatives dropping Biz tax cuts to pay for the NHS?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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I think it's shameful and fudging disgusting. No less than I expect of the current Conservative party though, and still leaves them as the least worst option by a very long margin.
 
I hate to agree with you. But there it is. What a selection the nation has to choose from. `

@scaramanga what would your manifesto look like....!
 
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SpurMeUp said:
Okay I think your point of view is valid, and is probably shared by a fair amount of people - even if they don't feel comfortable expressing it. A few things:

  • Where do you get your news/information from?
  • How will leaving the EU stop illegal immigration? Unlike Germany we have a strong border. An illegal immigrant can't walk into the UK. They will need to risk their life on a raft or in a refrigerated lorry. Genuinely curious, do your news sources outline that these people are a fraction of the UK's migration? Most UK migrants are from outside the EU and come legally, and the UK has always had full control over that. How will leaving the EU help with immigration?
  • I might be wrong but Turkey won't join the EU in our lifetime. The EU has a trade arrangement with them and works closely with Turkey. That is all. Turkey actually stops a lot of illegal immigration into europe. The EU pays it to help out and detain these poor people from Syria etc and stop them from entering Greece etc. That wouldn't be possible without collaboration. Turkey's affiliation with the EU does not mean Turkey is joining the EU in full. So that really was fearmongering. If you can't admit that then that is probably your bias talking.
I don't know your age, but maybe you recall growing up and older folks saying things like "social cohesion" is not what it was!? There is something that happens to people, all over the world in every nation they've studied it, where we start to lament. We start to be more anti-immigration as well. It is a human aging thing. That is not to say things couldn't be better or improved, the UK is overpopulated in some areas, and has been underfunded for 10 years due to the banking crisis.

But why would we want to make that underfunding permanent by choosing Brexit? The reality is Brexit won't address immigration or social cohesion, but it will make our nation poorer.
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In reply to the first part of your post I'd just say that there's the internet, Books, life experience itself, like for most people I'd imagine?..Just asking for people not to binge up on the propaganda thrown out by the MSM such as the BBC and the like.

I like debate and due to the missus and a sister working in Education, I know plenty of teachers and their spouses and over the years have got to listen to some of their bat crazy ideas.

I wrote about illegal immigration only in response to you bringing up Farage's poster so that I could highlight the lack of response by the EU to the problem.. I've often told Remainers, that Merkel's unilateral invite was a major factor in helping to boost the Leave vote the following year..

Regarding calls for Turkey's EU membership. I did say, that for now, it's on hold. I would recommend you try to think in terms of the long game just as those who pull the strings do..

On the older folks lamenting ...Yes, I get all that, you've completely sussed me out :)having not long ago read a book called The Unknown Warriors by Nicholas Pringle (2009) .. It's a good read, a collection of letters from Second World War veterans with memories of wartime and their thoughts on life since the end of the war and the feelings about the country today.

I feel we're at our best, for the children and the future generations, when we appreciate the trials and tribulations of our ancestors. I don't like how we dismiss them simply as racist evildoers, going about building empires.. It's part of the Cultural Marxist school curriculum to demonise the ancestors and to paint a distorted view of history. The children are being indoctrinated rather than being taught critical thinking .. There are no people and no major nation that has no flaws and yet you'd think from debating with some of the youngsters nowadays, the British invented slavery rather than being the first to abolish it!

Regarding - The lack of social cohesion.. It's real and not just a figment of the imagination of the old or do you think it is? ..

The other night I tuned into Sky News Channel - The Pledge, a current affairs debating show ...

There's six panelists, consisting of two black women, a Muslim Council of Britain member, a Pakistani man- they're berating the two defensive whites on the show, on just how very racist many of the white British people really are.. The anti-white attacks are never ending and it's on all the MSM... Should Corbyn become PM this will all go into overdrive:eek:...

Finally in answering your Brexit question and immigration...Brexit is irrelevant to the mass immigration question as all the major parties are pro mass immigration!

If you have the time and can get yourself away from the MSM , give this video a watch...
 
The class war needs to be fought and the NHS is the battlefield ..

Right v Left....
Conservative v Labour ....
Tory Boy v SJW Leftie ...
@scaramanga v @Gilzeantoscore

@scaramanga whilst I don't expect any rationale regarding the NHS from @Gilzeantoscore....You, as a business man, should know that this is all about supply meeting demand?

...Since 1997 and Tony Blair......It's no longer The National Health Service but the International Health Service ..

 
wiziwig said:
The class war needs to be fought and the NHS is the battlefield ..

Right v Left....
Conservative v Labour ....
Tory Boy v SJW Leftie ...
@scaramanga v @Gilzeantoscore

@scaramanga whilst I don't expect any rationale regarding the NHS from @Gilzeantoscore....You, as a business man, should know that this is all about supply meeting demand?

...Since 1997 and Tony Blair......It's no longer The National Health Service but the International Health Service ..

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I think where you and I probably differ politically is that I don't really believe borders have worth. I believe in complete freedom of movement for any law abiding citizens. Workers, after all, are a commodity just like anything else a business uses. Just as goods and services should have no artificial barriers, neither should people.

Where we probably agree is that I don't believe the state should be providing in or out of work benefits to anyone that hasn't paid in a significant amount first. Become a citizen, pay taxes above £X for Y years and then have access to benefits - people with access to more data than I do can calculate the balancing point fairly quickly.
 
Is anyone going to watch the debate between Boris and Jezza this evening? Seems a waste of time to me without the other parties involved.
 
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nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Is it as hilarious as they usually are? All unicorns bricking rainbows nonsense because the know theyll never need to deliver?
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What is in the Green Party's manifesto?

increase funding for the NHS by at least £6bn per year, until 2030

introduce a universal basic income of at least £89 per week for every adult by 2025

build 100,000 new zero carbon homes for social rent each year

hold a further Brexit referendum, at which the party will campaign to remain in the EU

introduce a proportional representation voting system and extend votes to 16 and 17-year-olds

Ban the construction of nuclear power stations and fracking for gas and oil

The party proposes borrowing £91.2bn a year to pay for capital expenditure. A further £9bn would be raised through tax changes including increasing corporation tax to 24%.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50467790
 
Favour said:
What is in the Green Party's manifesto?

increase funding for the NHS by at least £6bn per year, until 2030

introduce a universal basic income of at least £89 per week for every adult by 2025

build 100,000 new zero carbon homes for social rent each year

hold a further Brexit referendum, at which the party will campaign to remain in the EU

introduce a proportional representation voting system and extend votes to 16 and 17-year-olds

Ban the construction of nuclear power stations and fracking for gas and oil

The party proposes borrowing £91.2bn a year to pay for capital expenditure. A further £9bn would be raised through tax changes including increasing corporation tax to 24%.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50467790
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Sounds good to me.

UBI by 2025 might be ambitious but the arguments for it are compelling when you dig into them (Bregman talks about it in his new book a lot).
 
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