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Players Out: Rumours and Discussion

Re: Jan Vertonghen

There is a difference between having great defenders, and having 99% possession so you don't need good defenders.

Quite often they have a patched up defence with full backs playing as wingers, so it is hard to compare to a standard "defence" like Ryan Shawcross and co.
 
Re: Jan Vertonghen

Raoul Duke said:
Mascherano is one of the best defensive players in the world, so don't see your point?
Do you think you win La Liga with 100 points, 15 ahead of Madrid with a brick defence? Also, Madrid under Mourinho has been rather defensive minded, and they still conceded more goals than Barca.
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Barca's defense has been abysmal this year. And yes, i think you could easily win La Liga, 15 points ahead of Madrid with a brick defence, because it happened this year.


Barca have an unorthodox method of defending. They stop you scoring by keeping possession. However when the opposition has had possession, Barca have been very poor this year.
 
Re: Jan Vertonghen

Bullet said:
There is a difference between having great defenders, and having 99% possession so you don't need good defenders.

Quite often they have a patched up defence with full backs playing as wingers, so it is hard to compare to a standard "defence" like Ryan Shawcross and co.
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this is my point Raoul. Nobody can get the ball off them but when they play a good side they almost always concede multiple times look at the Bayern tie. MAscherano is a good DM but if he played CB in a normal side he would be torn to pieces.
 
Re: Jan Vertonghen

clevelandspur said:
this is my point Raoul. Nobody can get the ball off them but when they play a good side they almost always concede multiple times look at the Bayern tie. MAscherano is a good DM but if he played CB in a normal side he would be torn to pieces.
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Defending isn't all about the defence, I agree that Barca's defence hasn't been at their best this year, but I still think they (Barca) are one of the best at defending. When I say defending I don't mean only the back four. Ball retention and pressing all over the pitch is a big part of defending, and I can't think of many better at that than Barca.
 
Re: Jan Vertonghen

Raoul Duke said:
Defending isn't all about the defence, I agree that Barca's defence hasn't been at their best this year, but I still think they (Barca) are one of the best at defending. When I say defending I don't mean only the back four. Ball retention and pressing all over the pitch is a big part of defending, and I can't think of many better at that than Barca.
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I agree, but with the caveat that they are utterly terrible at defending set pieces. I mean dreadful, one of the worst teams in the top leagues in the world quite easily. Particularly when Pique and Puyol are out.
 
Re: Jan Vertonghen

Raoul Duke said:
Defending isn't all about the defence, I agree that Barca's defence hasn't been at their best this year, but I still think they (Barca) are one of the best at defending. When I say defending I don't mean only the back four. Ball retention and pressing all over the pitch is a big part of defending, and I can't think of many better at that than Barca.
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Well I agree with you there they press better than anyone higher up the pitch, still fact remains if you can get at their back 4 (when/if you can get the ball) they struggle so its hard for me to say they have a good defence
 
Re: Jan Vertonghen

Barca have the best work ethic I've ever seen. They defend systematically from the front. They don't have the best defenders but as a team they are an incredible defensive outfit and a lot of this is credited to Guardiola. There was a brilliant article I read about it on the miostadium website which is now gone but I found this copy/paste version of it here. Definitely worth a read if you have time...

http://forums.liverpoolfc.com/archive/index.php/t-300557.html
 
Re: Jan Vertonghen

clevelandspur said:
Well I agree with you there they press better than anyone higher up the pitch, still fact remains if you can get at their back 4 (when/if you can get the ball) they struggle so its hard for me to say they have a good defence
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They certainly don't have a brick defence. Alves, Puyol, Piqué, Alba is half decent if you ask me.
But that's irrelevant; the original discussion was you saying they are brick at defending and me saying they are one of the best in the world at defending.
 
Re: Jan Vertonghen

clevelandspur said:
Well I agree with you there they press better than anyone higher up the pitch, still fact remains if you can get at their back 4 (when/if you can get the ball) they struggle so its hard for me to say they have a good defence
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That is partly a result of their pressing style. When teams commit players forward to that extent and the opponents do get past some of that pressure their defenders will be exposed with a lot of space around them. Most, if not all, defenders in the world will struggle in those situations.

Players like Pique, Puyol and Alba (along with Busquets) have all been part of very solid looking Spain sides that have gone through entire international tournaments almost without conceding playing a somewhat different defensive system. I struggle to see how they could be anything other than very good defenders.

Barcelona's squad is somewhat thin though and a couple of injuries at the back does make them considerably worse. Mascherano fits them really well as a central defender, apart from when defending set pieces, but they're one centre back short in their squad I think.
 
Re: Jan Vertonghen

Didn't Barca ship 7 goals against one of the German teams in the semi final?

Not such a great defense really is it just better than the rest of the dross in Spain who play tippy tappy football
 
Re: Jan Vertonghen

kanoute16 said:
Didn't Barca ship 7 goals against one of the German teams in the semi final?

Not such a great defense really is it just better than the rest of the dross in Spain who play tippy tappy football
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Lol... Barca have always been weak on the break/ in transitions because they bomb their full-backs/everyone so far up the pitch and rely on the pressure this causes to 'defend'/ prevent their horrendously open defence being exposed. I think it would be extremely naive to write off Barcelona's defence after 2 games against the best counter-attacking team on the planet (and therefore the most likely to take advantage of their deficiencies). Especially when Bartra started both games.

Surely players like Thiago Silva and even Marquinhos are higher up their list than Vertonghen? They basically have their pick of any CB they want... although that 40m on Neymar might have changed things a bit!
 
Re: Jan Vertonghen

Barca's possession make them look a lot better defensively than they actually are. Pique is 1 of the most overrated CB's in world football.
 
Re: Jan Vertonghen

Yiddo said:
Barca's possession make them look a lot better defensively than they actually are. Pique is 1 of the most overrated CB's in world football.
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I would say the same about Puyol. The Spanish John Terry/Jamie Carragher. Will always put in some last ditch clearances/tackles that makes him look better than he is.
 
Livermore and Townsend off?

I heard both are off on loan for a year to Palace. Think we should give them Livermore but Townsend deserves a chance here I think don't you???
 
Re: Livermore and Townsend off?

tjmill said:
I heard both are off on loan for a year to Palace. Think we should give them Livermore but Townsend deserves a chance here I think don't you???
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Which 'both' are off to palace? Livermore and Townsend?
 
Daily Mail saying Fenerbache have had a £10 million bid for Cardozo rejected and might now turn their attention to Adebayor.
 
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