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Paris

Bullet said:
Or it was a bomb behind her, blowing her spine out of the window.

Physics, innit.
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I does sound like from recent reports that she was blown up by some one else, only yesterday they found a 3rd body (possibly the person wearing the vest)
 
scaramanga said:
I'm not sure I like the idea of executing someone for something they may or may not do in the future.

Are you Theresa May?
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No doubt the US could have handled the situation a lot better. And I think the situation could have been handled better without executions for crimes not yet committed or sending people to Guantanamo.

At the same time, I think it's too easy to just say that the US are at fault for IS here. When people like myself criticize religion as one of the sources for this kind of evil there's no end to the other factors being presented instead. Say that the US or colonialism are at fault and it's pretty much the end of the analysis for a lot of people. Saying that the leaders of IS were radicalized by the US is one interpretation. Another is that they were corrupted by the kind of power they had under the Saddam regime and are willing to do just about anything to get it back when it was taken from them. I'm not sure that wishing that these people had just stayed in power in the first place is ethically sound. It actually sounds a lot like the "stability geopolitics" of Kissinger and the US in the post WW2 era that has caused a lot of problems.

From what I've heard (mate of mine reading a book on ISIS) a big part of the problem are local tribal leaders that feel unjustly treated after the US lead invasion. They don't trust the current Iraqi government as they've given them no reason to, and they don't trust the US. They have some trust in IS as they've given them back local power. Getting them to switch sides at this point is extremely difficult.

Bullet said:
Thanks for posting that Craig, interesting. He says ISIS / IS / ISIL / DS want to provoke a bombing reaction to convert more locals into radicals. But the French will know that. Are they just weighing up the benefits (propaganda for the French people) versus cost (money plus risk of radicalising locals)? Or are they trying to achieve something more cunning?

This excellent video shows just how confused the situation is; seems nobody is quite sure who to arm / bomb or why... And they will probably all swap sides at some point anyway.

https://twitter.com/x/status/666528972176494592
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I like the idea of trying to figure out what the terrorists want and not doing what they want us to do.

Strangely when terrorists explicitly try to silence those who dare to criticize Islam the reaction isn't a more unified criticism of Islam.

markysimmo said:
Death was far too easy a way out for this clam, no doubt he is currently jacking up with allah fingering his 82 virgins he got for killing innocent human beings

The man believed to be behind the Paris terror attacks reportedly died in this morning’s police raid, sources suggest.

Abdelhamid Abaaoud, 27, had been holed up in a flat in Saint-Denis, in the north of the city, but is believed to have been killed during a stand-off, according to senior intelligence officials.

One woman was also killed after detonating her suicide belt and five people were arrested.

A Paris prosecutor said the suspected mastermind, and an accomplice in the Paris attacks, are not among those arrested.

Four police officers were also injured in dramatic scenes in the French capital.

Abaaoud, from Belgium, was named as the man behind the massacre of at least 129 people
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It's a shame there isn't a hell for him to go to. Or even an afterlife for him to mediate on his sins.

Even an hour in the torturous knowledge that he was utterly wrong on some of the most important questions in life and that he killed hundreds, caused suffering for thousands and fear for many more for no valid reason at all would have been some sort of punishment. The quiet void of non-existence unfortunately isn't.
 
It might be rude to do so after the discussion has died down somewhat, but I will ask @LutonSpurs again about his claims that Sam Harris is a hate monger. You liked my post where I asked you to expand on this, but as rude as it might be to call you out on another answer I think calling someone a hate monger without being willing to expand an give examples when asked is even worse.

I've read and heard a bit more of what Sam Harris has to say on this and other issues recently, and I really struggle to see how it's fair to label him a hate monger. The silencing of opinions by this kind of name calling is really harmful to conversations on this kind of topic if it's not true. If you're right examples should be fairly easy to come by.
 
braineclipse said:
It might be rude to do so after the discussion has died down somewhat, but I will ask @LutonSpurs again about his claims that Sam Harris is a hate monger. You liked my post where I asked you to expand on this, but as rude as it might be to call you out on another answer I think calling someone a hate monger without being willing to expand an give examples when asked is even worse.

I've read and heard a bit more of what Sam Harris has to say on this and other issues recently, and I really struggle to see how it's fair to label him a hate monger. The silencing of opinions by this kind of name calling is really harmful to conversations on this kind of topic if it's not true. If you're right examples should be fairly easy to come by.
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I had forgotten. Let me get to a pc/laptop during the week and I will explain my stance.
 
Sorry but what a 5hite lazy vote. Lots of smiling and laughing fat lookalike blokes after the vote who will be none the wiser after the air strikes... More civilians considered collateral. More displacement for Syrians that the EU are already moaning about. The Russkies and Assad must be laughing. Blair must be shaking his head.
 
Yeah, I noticed the typo too smart-arse ('I' before the 'e', except... etc - on my phone and have fat fingers).

Thanks for your input.
 
Papercut said:
Why don't these politicians put it to the vote of thier constituents?
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By having a representative democracy MP's are supposedly able to make rational decisions based on logic and reason rather than emotion. Which is ironic seeing as this just seems soley driven by emotion.

As someone (can't remember who) said yesterday doing nothing has an effect just as doing something does. But I'm positive that bombs raining down have a much, much more volatile and unpredictable effect than doing nothing does.
 
Craig_J said:
By having a representative democracy MP's are supposedly able to make rational decisions based on logic and reason rather than emotion. Which is ironic seeing as this just seems soley driven by emotion.

As someone (can't remember who) said yesterday doing nothing has an effect just as doing something does. But I'm positive that bombs raining down have a much, much more volatile and unpredictable effect than doing nothing does.
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In a black and white case of bombs v nothing i can't see that doing nothing and allowing IS to continue taking hold of regions in the Midfle East would be the better option. At least this time around we have genuine targets and i believe UN approval/support - millions of people are fleeing the middle east seeking refuge from the very people we're targetting, surely it's in everyones interest that action is taken?
 
markysimmo said:
The incident at Leytonstone station is horrific
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Indeed and a worry for people going out in London, I am taking the lad up to London next Saturday is a family tradition we go up see the lights go to Hamleys and then for something to eat. I know the police try their best but it is always at the back of your mind.
 
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