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Our 2 big problems this season...
- Thread starter the dza
- Start date
glasgowspur
Dimitar Berbatov
My GHod what bunch of moaning Gits.
Where were we in the table at Christmas, 4th 5th? We can't finish any worse than 3rd, don't pick a couple of games (tough games at that)in isolation and use them to define a season.
For a second season, with a bunch of kids and a thin squad this has been a superb season.
Shut up and support the team. They're doing a great job.
Where were we in the table at Christmas, 4th 5th? We can't finish any worse than 3rd, don't pick a couple of games (tough games at that)in isolation and use them to define a season.
For a second season, with a bunch of kids and a thin squad this has been a superb season.
Shut up and support the team. They're doing a great job.
Spur of the moment
Frederic Kanoute
Big problems? Big problems?
Come on!
Come on!
Nobody is moaning, read the phucking post! It starts by saying how well we have done this season!
Perhaps 'problem' is the wrong choice of words. But there must be a reason why we aren't doing so well at home compared to away, and if we want to go to the next level as a team, we have to win more home games, simple as that. As much as I'm delighted with our season, I want us to do even better. Defending leads better and winning more home games, even just a small improvement in these areas, might be the difference between nearly winning the league and winning it.
And @glasgowspur this isn't a couple of games in isolation, I'm talking about our overall home form (19 league games) and the fact that after 37 league games, we have lost more points from a winning position than any other team in the league. I'm sure Poch is working on it, but being this is a forum I thought we might talk about it as well!
Perhaps 'problem' is the wrong choice of words. But there must be a reason why we aren't doing so well at home compared to away, and if we want to go to the next level as a team, we have to win more home games, simple as that. As much as I'm delighted with our season, I want us to do even better. Defending leads better and winning more home games, even just a small improvement in these areas, might be the difference between nearly winning the league and winning it.
And @glasgowspur this isn't a couple of games in isolation, I'm talking about our overall home form (19 league games) and the fact that after 37 league games, we have lost more points from a winning position than any other team in the league. I'm sure Poch is working on it, but being this is a forum I thought we might talk about it as well!
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
Pretty much this. Given that, as you say, you've even stated in the first post what the people presumably more interested in being self-righteous wanted to see, I don't really get why they're still out on the prowl. Can discussion not go both ways, or is a one-way track all that is allowed before the sneering sets in again?
For people of similar mind to @glasgowspur, no one's saying we had a bad season - it's been good, could become great depending on how the result goes next weekend. But improvement is something Poch will be looking for as much as anyone, and discussing it is necessary given that, despite our season, we've had some problems that it would be very pertinent to address before 2016-2017 season.
Millsy_Yiddo
Naybet
It's still been great no matter whether we finish above them lot or not. Everyone on this forum would have bitten your hand off for 3rd at the start of this season.
Although I do worry that inflated expectations might put undue pressure on the players & Poch at the start of next season. It's been a fantastic season, but at the end of the day we're likely to only just about beat or match our best ever points total. The last time we done that we were no where near the top of the league. Let's not get carried away and think we are nailed on to challenge for the title again next season.
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glasgowspur
Dimitar Berbatov
True you aren't moaning and I should have made clear that I wasn't responding to your original post. I apologise for that.
But the doom and gloom and to be honest rather pathetic moaning on here since last Monday has been terrible.
The team has over performed this season, only two weeks ago everyone was saying how great we had been with only one bad game. Other than Saudi Sportswashing Machine we had played everyone off the park.
Now a few things don't fall our way and suddenly it's back to the bad old Spurs.
Against Chelsea we were missing one of our most important players, against soton two of them.
The team shouldn't be defined in their second season and if they finish above or below Arsenal.
Keep the faith
tynesidespur
Terry Yorath
Agree with the OP.
I think we're going to need some expectation management next season too.
At the end of the day we have only got 70 points after 37 games. That's still way, way short of a title challenge in any regular season and would normally be aligned to challenging for top 4 even then not being enough in some seasons. Its quite possible that like our neighbours up the road we hit a similar points tally next season but for whatever reason other teams markedly improve. If that happens we can't be calling out the players for "regressing".
The difference with our previous 70+ points seasons is the number of games lost - 5 up to this point, a magnificent achievement. It means we are drawing too many games and the next stage of our development is to ensure we turn those draws into victories next season. The stats suggest the main issue with that is at home.
Its not easy to make that next leap but I trust in Poch to identify the weak areas and tweak/improve as he has done this season.
I think we're going to need some expectation management next season too.
At the end of the day we have only got 70 points after 37 games. That's still way, way short of a title challenge in any regular season and would normally be aligned to challenging for top 4 even then not being enough in some seasons. Its quite possible that like our neighbours up the road we hit a similar points tally next season but for whatever reason other teams markedly improve. If that happens we can't be calling out the players for "regressing".
The difference with our previous 70+ points seasons is the number of games lost - 5 up to this point, a magnificent achievement. It means we are drawing too many games and the next stage of our development is to ensure we turn those draws into victories next season. The stats suggest the main issue with that is at home.
Its not easy to make that next leap but I trust in Poch to identify the weak areas and tweak/improve as he has done this season.
FatBloke
Jose Dominguez
That's the interesting thing. I genuinely think we're on to a change here -- the sheer amount of cash now enjoyed by the lesser teams puts them ahead of most of Europe in attracting the mercenaries...and even the non-mercenaries, as they can see a stint with Southampton or West Ham getting them visibility and career progression.
This season wasn't just about ManU, Chelsea and Emirates Marketing Project having poor seasons -- it was about the mid-tier teams upping their games. Just look at the quality of players signed by Stoke! I don't think that's going to go away. I think the big clubs, us included, are going to lose more games next season as well.
West Ham have 52,000 season tickets lined up, apparently. Couple that with a scandalously cheap stadium, and that'll put them up there with us, if not beyond. Southampton are building. Klopp looks to have Liverpool sorted. ManU have been a bit of a joke but still have quality attacking players and massive resources.
Previous seasons saw massive gaps between the top 3/4/5 and the rest. I reckon that step is going to disappear, and we'll see 7 or 8 teams genuinely competing for the CL places. I just hope we're at the top of that tree.
wiziwig
Steed Malbranque
If I had to pick two, I'd say our ball retention and our hitting the target to goal attempt ratio.
I want to see more one and two touch recycling of the ball when the obvious pass is on. Players take to long on the ball when the correct thing to do is to pass it quicker and move .
I want to see more of our throw-ins to feet. To often our players are not looking for the quick short throw to feet and instead, position themselves for the long throw-in down the line which often leads to a loss of possesion.
Our shooting accuracy seems poor to me. To many of our players are putting emphasis on power over accuracy in their shooting and hitting row Z. I recall Andros Townshend getting flack for this but others are doing the same. I'm not wishing to single one particular player out, but Danny Rose, think back to your league debut goal versus the Goons!
I want to see more one and two touch recycling of the ball when the obvious pass is on. Players take to long on the ball when the correct thing to do is to pass it quicker and move .
I want to see more of our throw-ins to feet. To often our players are not looking for the quick short throw to feet and instead, position themselves for the long throw-in down the line which often leads to a loss of possesion.
Our shooting accuracy seems poor to me. To many of our players are putting emphasis on power over accuracy in their shooting and hitting row Z. I recall Andros Townshend getting flack for this but others are doing the same. I'm not wishing to single one particular player out, but Danny Rose, think back to your league debut goal versus the Goons!
tynesidespur
Terry Yorath
There has been some statistical analysis of this online. It appears we favour increased shot numbers over quality of shot/chance position. This leads to more long-range shots with a less likelihood of scoring. The goons take the opposite approach and favour fewer chances of higher quality. Hasn't really worked for them any better than our method.
jts1882
Dean Richards
But similar thinking would say we are only 2nd because of the failings of the others.
I agree with Fatbloke that the gap has narrowed making the rich clubs more vulnerable to a poor season. Before they had twice the revenues of everyone else, but the increased PL money has taken away that advantage (along with the lack of a fixed top four and CL money).
This makes it difficult to assess the season. A pessimistic view is we've finished at about the same level as several other recent seasons (around 70 pts) and its just others going up and down around us. But it's hard to ignore the way we have played, the style, the league best defence and possibly best attack. We've avoided the slide of the other big clubs due to more parity, but this makes it hard to measure the improvements.
The two issues raised in the opening post are both fixable, a few key acquisitions and more familiarity with the system. I felt we rotated less when we realised we were in the title race and this ultimately caught up with us. There is also the age of the squad and the inexperience. This side would have been susbtantially younger than the United "kids" that won the league.
i think it's been unacceptable in the past where we've felt the players just haven't been as bothered as perhaps us. That certainly isn't the case any more. I'm sure, you like me, feel far more connected to the club than in bygone years, thanks largely in part to the playing staff and management. We just have to put it down to unfortunately we were not good enough at the crucial period of the season where it really mattered unlike the worthy champions Leicester.
We just have to look to improve. Where it appears there has been a bit of a mental barrier is that of when we have had chances to capitalising, ie. to go top (Against Arsenal and West Ham), and then keep applying the pressure (West Brom and Chelsea) and now Southampton. It's not an easy thing to overcome, but it's to do with outlook, and I don't think players like Alli and Kane are particularly held back by any of this. The sky is the limit for these guys.
What they do deserve more from is the home fans. Leicester were far better, were more humble (in terms of the fever and hype at their ground, they were not quiet and always stayed with their side), whereas we have a certain expectation on our side which is simply not fair. They exceeded our expectation this year and should be lauded and praised for it. Now in the words of Pochettino "we must now improve"
Lemonade Money
Steffen Freund
I think we rotated players pretty well throughout the season. But after exiting the EL, we stopped and played the same team every game (barring injuries/suspensions). Should Poch have kept the team fresh with some small rotation? Would Son and Mason have been better when they were needed, if they'd played more? Would the first XI have been fresher/hungrier if they had been rested at times?
jts1882
Dean Richards
^^
Agreed. For a lot of the season we were unsure of the best XI so we had rotation and competition for places. Then we had a fixed side and perhaps it led to tiredness for the starters, lack of match sharpness for the replacements , and possibly a little complacency or acceptance of role.
A bit of perspective on the points lost when leading:
Not sure if there is a common reason. Possibly, we score a lot so often have a lead to lose and we score a lot so can come back from a deficit.
Agreed. For a lot of the season we were unsure of the best XI so we had rotation and competition for places. Then we had a fixed side and perhaps it led to tiredness for the starters, lack of match sharpness for the replacements , and possibly a little complacency or acceptance of role.
A bit of perspective on the points lost when leading:
Not sure if there is a common reason. Possibly, we score a lot so often have a lead to lose and we score a lot so can come back from a deficit.
Gazzasrightboot
Pascal Chimbonda
I don't think that this thread is overly negative as it is looking at things that would improve us as a team. However, I would say that we are being overly critical in what needs to be worked on in order to make us title winning. What I like about this season is that it was not necessarily tactics or formations or the superstar player that led to success. Quite the opposite, it was hard work, consistency in team selection and being mentally tough to grind out a result. The difference between Leicester and us was that they could get grind out those results and we couldn't.
The reason why we couldn't for me is simply down to experience. Hardly any of our team had been involved in a title winning team. That experience at having to grind out a win is essential. That hurt that @DubaiSpur very eloquently posted after the Chelsea result will do more for our development than any changing of formation, buying of new player or shift in philosophy that is not so physically tiring. We have been better this season not because we have run more, but because we knew better when to press and when not to.
Yesterday's result did not surprise me. These are young men who were gutted with the result against Chelsea. It would be impossible for them to have gone through last week without feeling sorry for themselves.
And just one more thing - regardless of whether we finish second or third, this has been a GREAT season. We have completely surpassed the beginning of season expectations and as Poch has said multiple times, we are ahead of schedule. What happens at the end of this week will have no bearing on the excitement that I have felt watching this team. I have never witnessed a real title contention, and those results against Emirates Marketing Project, Man United, Stoke and others will live long in my memory. One game will not change that one iota. Sorry to disagree with you there @DubaiSpur, but this game is not purely about results and end of league standing, especially when there are so many other imbalances. We have done extremely well to be where we are.
The reason why we couldn't for me is simply down to experience. Hardly any of our team had been involved in a title winning team. That experience at having to grind out a win is essential. That hurt that @DubaiSpur very eloquently posted after the Chelsea result will do more for our development than any changing of formation, buying of new player or shift in philosophy that is not so physically tiring. We have been better this season not because we have run more, but because we knew better when to press and when not to.
Yesterday's result did not surprise me. These are young men who were gutted with the result against Chelsea. It would be impossible for them to have gone through last week without feeling sorry for themselves.
And just one more thing - regardless of whether we finish second or third, this has been a GREAT season. We have completely surpassed the beginning of season expectations and as Poch has said multiple times, we are ahead of schedule. What happens at the end of this week will have no bearing on the excitement that I have felt watching this team. I have never witnessed a real title contention, and those results against Emirates Marketing Project, Man United, Stoke and others will live long in my memory. One game will not change that one iota. Sorry to disagree with you there @DubaiSpur, but this game is not purely about results and end of league standing, especially when there are so many other imbalances. We have done extremely well to be where we are.
glasgowspur
Dimitar Berbatov
Another thing, if my memory is right, and it isn't always, all the games that we had to win fell against the bigger or the form teams. You can't always win them, sometimes a draw has to be acknowledge as a good result.
No worries mate, no need to apologise -- you are covered by my many other irrational posts!
I agree totally with you, even though there have been recent disappointments (if you can call not winning the league a disappointment for a club like us) and not being able to end our run against Chelsea away, the season has been fantastic and we have played some really great football at times. And we shouldn't lose sight of that.