The fees you have spent are ultimately not important if you have done sensational business and have accrued a squad who's talent is well above the fees paid for them. The fact that Kane came up through the academy rather than being bought from Barca for 40 million does not suddenly make him much worse than Sanchez. The fact Eriksen came from Ajax from 12 million does not make him much worse than Ozil. The fact Xhaka cost 30 million while Wanyama cost 12 does not mean that he is better than him. It means that we have done better business than them.
I think you are missing or misrepresenting my point. Arsenal, Emirates Marketing Project, Man Utd Chelsea etc can purchase ready made World class stars. Of course there is a sliding scale amongst those teams on spend but we are not even on Arsenal's scale. It is generally the case that to accept the wages paid by Spurs, unlike by our rivals, you will be a rough diamond although occasionally we get lucky with a Modric, Berbatov, VDV or Alderweireld but they are the exception rather than the rule.
We rely on Poch to polish these players. He pushes players to the limits of their ability perhaps getting more out of them than another manager would. The process to build a successful squad with rough diamonds takes longer. It will also mean the players may not be as consistent, are more likely to make mistakes and while they are developing may not have as high a performance ceiling as the world class player especially under pressure. THIS is why we come up short in certain games not because the team bottle those games.
In the rough diamond category we have had several, take your pick from Eriksen, Alli Kane, Dier, Rose, Wanyama, Lamela. That we are talking about them in the same breath as the Ozils and Sanchez, and that we are talking about them as title challengers is a credit to Poch's coaching acumen and the players application. That for me deserves respect.
I would also point out that while we have a very good first 11, our squad does not necessarily stack up well against Arsenal. Take forwards. We have Kane now as good as anything Arsenal have (not the case perhaps 2 seasons ago). But if Kane gets injured or is having an off day, our options to change our attack through forwards is much more limited than the likes of Arsenal who have Sanchez, Welbeck, Giroud and this season Lacazette. In Midfield yes we have Wanyama who has been injured for the best part of the season, with the equally injury prone Dembele, the inconsistent Dier and the inexperienced Winks. Arsenal have Xaka, El neny, Coquelin and Ramsay. It just means they have options whereas we have to rely heavily on our first 11. This imo was decisive in the Chelsea semi final. It wasn't a lack of bottle.
Ateltico Madrid have won 4 trophies in the past 10 years (plus 2 more if you want to include Super Cups). 2 of them European trophies. They've reached the CL final twice. Their budget is dwarfed by the 2 Spanish giants. Its dwarfed by 6 English teams (including us). Its dwarfed by 3 German, by 3 Italian. In fact, their turnover is a mere 20 million more than West Ham. And yet they don't cry that Real have more money or that Barcelomna have more world class players. They do what they can.
I cannot comment on the Atletico situation because I am not aware of their circumstances. I can say that apart from Leicester's miracle what they achieve is exceptional. Does that mean we should be able to do it as well? If so how come Liverpool have not won the PL and Arsenal last won it in 2004? How come Utd have failed to finish even 2nd under 3 different managers having spent obscene amounts of money since Ferguson left? Where are clubs with a similar history to us like Everton and Aston Villa? Is there something unique about the PL? Is La Liga as competitive?
Bear in mind they have to compete with 2 behemoths while we have 5 in the PL. We also have other clubs like West Ham and Saudi Sportswashing Machine which although are not as wealthy as us on paper can afford to pay higher wages.
Why should we regret not winning the title when Leicester did? An exceptional set of circumstances came together for Leicester that enabled them to do it. Circumstances that didn't happen for us. However we will now consistently challenge for the Champions League and Trophies whilethey are back to mid table. For the long term health and success of our club this is the better situation. Do not confuse envy with regret.
Yes the expectations at the other 5 clubs are (and should be) higher than ours. But we have, whether by luck or by great management is up to each person to decide, been able to build a squad that actually is one of the best in the league. I'm always hearing on the board we have the best striker in the league (and the world). That we have the best keeper, best defence, best midfield. Eriksen is on a par with Ozil and De Bruyne etc etc. Yet when it suits us, suddenly Arsenal have the better team, the world class players and should be winning trophies.
I have never claimed we have the best player in any position other than perhaps Kane who is now the most consistent striker and possibly Alderweireld. Perhaps you should take up those comments with the posters that made them. I am and most posters on this board are fully aware of our limitations which is why I believe Poch is doing an amazing job and I accept why we may not always win the big games. But we win enough of them.
So what criticism for you is valid and when is that criticism valid? You are again extrapolating comments that simply haven't been made. Nobody has said that Poch is a bottler because he hasn't won trophies at Espanyol. Not many claim that they know more about Poch than his players. But that line does raise an interesting question for me. If you think you can criticise team tactics or selections....why can we? How is that different to us armchair fans claiming to apparently know more than Poch or Levy on his players or their strategy? Why can someone criticise his selection? Poch would know more about their training that week, their mental state, their numbers, how fit they are. If we are not allowed to comment on these things, does the forum not effectively just become an echo chamber where we fall over each other to praise Poch and how amazing everything
I was answering the often made and rather irritating claim that posters are not allowed to criticise Poch which, going by posts after we lose, is clearly not the case. For what it is worth I think it is perfectly valid to criticise him; as you say it is what a forum is for. But it is then equally valid for posters like myself to defend Poch against what we feel are unjust and occasionally wholly disrespectful criticisms without being accused of stifling debate. The fact is there are more people defending than criticising but it does not stop the debate.
Poch has done an incredible job with us so far. He's one of the best managers we've had in quite a while. But I would like to win a trophy. As the club that finished 3rd and 2nd in the past 2 seasons, I don't think it is unreasonable to call us one of the best teams in the country. Its not unreasonable imo to think that we can be challenging for trophies. Not sure why that is churlish.
We all want to win trophies. Some posters may be more patient than others. The churlish comment referred to you claiming the team "bottle" big games, a comment I still don't agree with.
I understand you are a passionate supporter and like me a bit of a saddo spending time writing on a forum about our passion. I want to be clear that I like to read all posts and opinions even where I disagree with what is written and I will apologise if I came across as disrespecting your view. Anyway I will move on.
