• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

*** OMT - TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR vs Fulham***

I hope so - if only to feel that I've seen Janssen get a fair run out and he either performs or doesn't. son is ahead of him and justifiably so at present -but I'm sure Poch knows what he can do in a game, but I wonder whether he knows what Janssen can do -unless Poch sees training and actual matches as equivalent in terms of opportunity to perform. i can understand Poch not wanting to take a risk on Janssen in a league match - but today 3-0 up really was the perfect opportunity.

I don't know if you recall Poch's famous statement that 'a player does not sign to play, he signs to train, and then the manager makes a decision'. According to his statement in his presser on Friday, " Vincent needs to show more in training"
 
Great day yesterday. A whole stand full of singing Spurs. Fluid, passing football. Kane hat trick. Verts back alongside Toby and looking like he'd never been away. Clean sheet. Eriksen making thing happen again (except free kicks). Winks looking more and more assured with each game. Yes, Fulham gave us the space to play, but we still had to actually do it.
A great pick up after the last couple of games to set us up well, confidence-wise, for Thursday.
 
A great day out as usual( i have a soft spot for Fulham as they were the first ground i saw a game back in 61), proper ground and its good to see that tradition still means something in todays game. As for our performance we could have murdered them if we had taken all our chances ( we still miss a lot). Great to see Jan back ( he really is a top player) Winks is growing into a very good player ( not just on the ball but off it as well), Eriksen showed that he really is our heartbeat and Kane ( even though i did not think he had one of his best games) got yet another hat trick.
 
I'd like to see at least a glimpse, of something he brings to the table, during a match where he shows some kind of promise. He's been bang average in pretty much any game I've seen him play. I'm not sure what his strengths are supposed to be or what kind of player he is, he's been that bland, in my opinion.

I agree. He must be incredible in training because he's done nothing on the pitch to deserve so much game time.
 
I don't know if you recall Poch's famous statement that 'a player does not sign to play, he signs to train, and then the manager makes a decision'. According to his statement in his presser on Friday, " Vincent needs to show more in training"

I understand Poch's position on signing to train/play. But that is different from the issue of whether training is a good proxy for Premiership games, and whether performance in training is always a reliable indicator of performance in Premiership matches. What if a player struggles in a match, but performs well in training - do you continue to persist with them in matches. What if a player is not that great in training, and not usually in the squad, but does well when they get an opportunity through injury that they might not have got otherwise - should they be out of the squad again.

I remember Brede Hangeland commenting that Dembele and Berbatov were "lazy" in training. I don't know if what he said was true, but when it comes to matchday they perform(ed) OK. So really my point is, could it be that Janssen's performance in training is not the most reliable indicator of his performance on matchday, and the amount of regular game time and the position he is played in are better indicators.
 
Fulham gave us a lot of space, which allowed us to play our game. I want to see us dominate when the other team is pressing the bejeepers out of us.
only very few teams are capable of doing that, I imagine that a few have come with that in mind but we dominate the game so much that they are just unable to do it.
 
only very few teams are capable of doing that, I imagine that a few have come with that in mind but we dominate the game so much that they are just unable to do it.
exactly it's not like flicking a light switch, they work on this relentlessly.
 
only very few teams are capable of doing that, I imagine that a few have come with that in mind but we dominate the game so much that they are just unable to do it.

It's not that - I'd imagine it's fairly easy to get players to man-mark and press high up if you're not worried about leaving blind spaces and tactical opportunities behind you when you push up. And, given that we struggle against *any* sort of pressing, I can't imagine that we'd make that much use out of those sorts of opportunities even if they were afforded to us by dint of over-enthusiastic opponents - we can't pull a City away every week.

It's more that Fulham were (and are) a side thoroughly used to having the majority of the ball in their games so far. Changing from *that* mentality to one where they have to press like crazy just to get flashes of possession (even if they're dangerous flashes) is what probably proved beyond them. In my eyes, it's easier to get a side used to sitting behind the ball to press higher up than it is to get a team used to a slow build-up and possession play to start pressing. The tactical fundamentals associated with the most common style of pressing today (quick transitions, ball covering large spaces quickly, players reacting to pressing cues in specific moments and situations) can also be found to an extent in defensively-oriented long ball systems - whereas they are largely alien to any approach which relies on slow build-ups and overlaps to construct play.

There's a style of pressing that works even with slow build-ups, but that style has only (imo) only ever been successfully implemented by Guardiola at Barca - where the passing triangles were short, considered and deliberate in the way that they slowly advanced the ball from one goal to the other. There, the build-up was designed to be completely de-risked - the ball would be carried in circulation from one box to the other, but *if* it were ever lost, then the team would suddenly press like a pack of starving wolves to get it back so they could resume the assured build-up that would (inevitably) lead to a goal.

That's the most brutally difficult type to implement, though - it requires the best of both worlds. Players able to keep possession with ease and keep the ball under pressure, but *also* able to mentally switch in an instant into pressing machines if they do lose the ball. If it works, it's unstoppable - *so* many teams complained about how impossible it was to play against Pep's Barca when they were masters of the system, because it's theoretically more capable of coming as close to footballing perfection than any other approach out there. But it requires world-class players, a world-class manager and a team thoroughly used to the idea of controlled risk and controlled build-up.

Needless to say, such an approach was beyond Fulham. Especially when (as per Jokanovic) we apparently treated them like Chelsea in the way we snuffed out any threat they could possibly think of posing while dominating them ourselves.
 
I must say, i thought going forward we were enterprising but still look nowhere near as assured that we know what we're doing compared to our defensive strategies.

I do worry that our coaching is good at defining our defensive style/positioning etc but has far less capability of ingraining attacking strategies.
We still miss FAR TOO MANY chances given how we much we attack, i'm wondering whether it's about not having the methodology built-in to create enough GOOD QUALITY chances...oh well put me on the roller-coaster anyhow...
 
Good to see us playing well and get an comfortable win in a Cup match. It has been a long time since we put up an assured performance in a Cup match. Fulham were poor but we did what we had to do. It shows what we can do when we play all our best players. We didn't really have all our best players available for this match but it really helped to have our best defence playing. Let's hope Pochettino will learn from this and play our best available team for all the Cup matches from now on.

Despite the win, we still need to be more ruthless in front of goal. We still wasted too many goal scoring chances.
Great to see Kane getting back his goal scoring form by scoring the hattrick. All were well taken goals. Really disappointed Janssen didn't even get to play a part in this match. We badly need Janssen to start scoring as we cannot rely on Kane all the time. But it won't help him if he does not get to play even when we are winning. He should have come on instead of Onomah. Disappointed that Alli and Son had another poor match. Was hoping Alli could score a goal but he didn't even come close. Alli assisted the third goal for Kane but felt he was too relaxed as he did too many of his fancy tricks. Son wasted a good chance to score late in the match.

Our midfield didn't have much to do as Fulham were poor. But credit to Wanyama and Winks for doing their job. Still not fully convinced of Winks but he is improving. Thought Eriksen had a good match as he created 2 goals for Kane. But he really could have done much better. It was again disappointing that he failed to hit the target from his freekicks.

It was great to see Vertonghen coming back to our defence. Our defence are world class when Vertonghen and Alderweireld are playing together. Fulham didn't test us much but it was another assured performance from our defence. Ofcourse, Vorm almost become a Gomes when he passed direct to a Fulham player from a clearance. Fortunately for Vorm, he managed to recover to save the shot. It would have put us under undue pressure if Fulham had scored that. Credit to Trippier for his quick throw which opened up the chance for Kane for our first goal.

It was nice to get our first win in 3 matches. It is always satisfying when we get a comfortable win, especially in the Cup matches. But it is amazing that we have avoided all the PL teams until the Quarter finals of the FA Cup so far. We need to make the most from this chance to go all the way to win it now.
 
I understand Poch's position on signing to train/play. But that is different from the issue of whether training is a good proxy for Premiership games, and whether performance in training is always a reliable indicator of performance in Premiership matches. What if a player struggles in a match, but performs well in training - do you continue to persist with them in matches. What if a player is not that great in training, and not usually in the squad, but does well when they get an opportunity through injury that they might not have got otherwise - should they be out of the squad again.

I remember Brede Hangeland commenting that Dembele and Berbatov were "lazy" in training. I don't know if what he said was true, but when it comes to matchday they perform(ed) OK. So really my point is, could it be that Janssen's performance in training is not the most reliable indicator of his performance on matchday, and the amount of regular game time and the position he is played in are better indicators.


Well I guess that is up to Poch and his team to decide. I would add though, that I have seen nothing from Vincent Jannsen so far, that suggests that he is worthy of a place in the team.
 
I must say, i thought going forward we were enterprising but still look nowhere near as assured that we know what we're doing compared to our defensive strategies.

I do worry that our coaching is good at defining our defensive style/positioning etc but has far less capability of ingraining attacking strategies.
We still miss FAR TOO MANY chances given how we much we attack, i'm wondering whether it's about not having the methodology built-in to create enough GOOD QUALITY chances...oh well put me on the roller-coaster anyhow...

I think the simple truth is we rely a lot on pace when going forward, and without Rose, we cannot play with wing-backs who bomb on and push up. It is one of the main reasons I have said Winks needs to start right now, because even though he isn't Linford Christie, his first move and thought is positive/forwards 90% of the time and he moves play along quickly and crisply without losing possession. I really, really hope Kyle Walker Peters and Marcus Edwards can get a few sub appearance under their belts, because for me, potentially, they are vital members of the squad with regards to the negating the issues discussed here when Rose is out.
 
Back