OMT ** Tottenham Hotspur v Monaco ** 22/10/25.

[billyiddo]

The vast majority of fans hated Conte! As they did Jose and just recently Ange as well.

I can’t fathom this narrative (only on here tbf) that Levy/Enic are somehow doing something against the fans wishes and the fans didn’t want these managers out. Levy was ridiculously patient with Ange for example, the Ange out bandwagon started after the inept Chelsea away performance in his first season a good 18 months before the bullet.

Really feels like if you just repeat something often enough, whether true or not, then you get people believing it. The Trumpian world we live in I guess.

Do you mean the Chelsea home game with the sendings off?

The way i recall it is that going in to the second season, the majority of the fanbase were on board/supportive and looking forward to the season ahead, by Christmas (ish) it was about 50-50 and then took a nosedive from there onward.

Thats refering to on here, support in the stadium never turned against him from what I saw

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Do you mean the Chelsea home game with the sendings off?

The way i recall it is that going in to the second season, the majority of the fanbase were on board/supportive and looking forward to the season ahead, by Christmas (ish) it was about 50-50 and then took a nosedive from there onward.

Thats refering to on here, support in the stadium never turned against him from what I saw

Away game in the first season. The match thread here and social media in general were pretty savage after that and we limped to the end of the season which just kept the snowball rolling picking up additional non believers. Like I said that’s where it started IMO, the first significant calls for Ange out and they got louder.

You don’t hear much in the way of chants at games these days, at any club, it’s death by a thousand cuts on the socials.

 

[billyiddo]

Away game in the first season. The match thread here and social media in general were pretty savage after that and we limped to the end of the season which just kept the snowball rolling picking up additional non believers. Like I said that’s where it started IMO, the first significant calls for Ange out and they got louder.

You don’t hear much in the way of chants at games these days, at any club, it’s death by a thousand cuts on the socials.

I think given the results/performances/position in the table during the majority of last season the lack of noise around the manager at the stadium says a lot - ordinarily you would expect quite a vocal reaction to that from the crowd. Maybe that was because the focus was towards Levy instead but there was a noticeable lack of disgruntlement towards the manager from the crowd.


Without checking back i don't even recall the Chelsea away game in question tbh

 

[Bishop]

If Monaco are 'a very good side' then so are we, absolutely. Man for man it is a match-up which actually sees us generally have more quality. So in that context, yes we are.

I DO agree with you that we are a developing squad with a lot of youth heading to bloom, so in Premiership terms we're currently sitting at about our 'right' position. I do think we could be getting more from our current results if we had a little more option/creative approach to our work.I would accept that injuries are a factor, absolutely, but again, we end up back at how theses players (if fit) would be used by Frank.

Back to that last sentence, bold-faced above...I absolutely think we should be expecting better performances than we're getting. 100%. We have the players, albeit I think we'd all agree we need more top quality in depth.

I haven't watched enough of Monaco to know if they are very good tbh. What I saw from them the other day was levels better than anything I've seen from us this or last season.

I just know we aren't very good. Calling us that is just hyperbole and leaves very little room for improvement. If we are very good what happens if we actually start passing the ball around well, controlling games, and playing with some genuine flair and creativity? At that point are we very good +1

No for now we are just ok and that's fine, given the circumstances and the changes. Like you, I do think we can get some better performances but not significantly. I rate the players we have far less than you do so to a decent extent I'm not particularly surprised with some of our struggles. Our attacking quality is very poor besides Kudus and Ange's overly aggressively positioned attacking system masked much of this (as I said at the time). Now with a more defensively balanced coach we are seeing quite clearly where our players are lacking. So for me we are far from very good.

 

[Bishop]

Away game in the first season. The match thread here and social media in general were pretty savage after that and we limped to the end of the season which just kept the snowball rolling picking up additional non believers. Like I said that’s where it started IMO, the first significant calls for Ange out and they got louder.

You don’t hear much in the way of chants at games these days, at any club, it’s death by a thousand cuts on the socials.

The fans have had very little say so or influence on the sackings Daniel Levy made over the years.

If we want the manager to stay the chairman would sack him anyway (Jol, Poch).

If the fan base clearly wanted the manager gone the chairman would keep him on until he later decided with terrible timing that it now made sense for him to go and at a time when very few fans actually thought it made sense (Mourinho).

 

[Lilbaz]

Yeah the football hasn't been great.

New manager. A few new starters in the first team. Much better league position compared to where we were last season.
What the fudge is the problem? People just like to moan and have a drama these days.

 

[Jurgen the German]

The vast majority of fans hated Conte! As they did Jose and just recently Ange as well.

I can’t fathom this narrative (only on here tbf) that Levy/Enic are somehow doing something against the fans wishes and the fans didn’t want these managers out. Levy was ridiculously patient with Ange for example, the Ange out bandwagon started after the inept Chelsea away performance in his first season a good 18 months before the bullet.

Really feels like if you just repeat something often enough, whether true or not, then you get people believing it. The Trumpian world we live in I guess.

Hated is a strong word. They may not have enjoyed the style of play but we were happy with the results when they were good.

I actually think Levy learned a lesson with the timing of sacking Jose which is why he gave Ange more time in the Europa. But look at Arteta, would a Spurs manager ever get 3 finishing outside the top 4? Ange is just about the only Spurs manager who Levy has been patient with. The rest have have 1 bad season or 1 season outside the top 4 and they’re toast.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Yeah the football hasn't been great. New manager. A few new starters in the first team. Much better league position compared to where we were last season.
What the fudge is the problem? People just like to moan and have a drama these days.

Acknowledging that we need better players isn’t really drama.

 

[Lilbaz]

Acknowledging that we need better players isn’t really drama.

We always need better players. Every team wants to upgrade.

 

[thfcsteff]

I haven't watched enough of Monaco to know if they are very good tbh. What I saw from them the other day was levels better than anything I've seen from us this or last season.

I just know we aren't very good. Calling us that is just hyperbole and leaves very little room for improvement. If we are very good what happens if we actually start passing the ball around well, controlling games, and playing with some genuine flair and creativity? At that point are we very good +1

No for now we are just ok and that's fine, given the circumstances and the changes. Like you, I do think we can get some better performances but not significantly. I rate the players we have far less than you do so to a decent extent I'm not particularly surprised with some of our struggles. Our attacking quality is very poor besides Kudus and Ange's overly aggressively positioned attacking system masked much of this (as I said at the time). Now with a more defensively balanced coach we are seeing quite clearly where our players are lacking. So for me we are far from very good.

I think there are several 'very good' sides in the Premiership. I do not think we are playing to our advantages. I think once again injuries are most unhelpful. I am unsurprised given that I am not sure if Frank can be different tactically in terms of how he wants us to create. As to your question/quip about what happens if we improve and what we become? We become a 'very, very' good side.
For me, when you have players in your squad such as Romero, VdV, Porro, Xavi, Muani, Kulusevski, Kudus, Maddison, you have a very good side (admittedly half of those are hurt)...anyway...

 

[Bishop]

I think there are several 'very good' sides in the Premiership. I do not think we are playing to our advantages. I think once again injuries are most unhelpful. I am unsurprised given that I am not sure if Frank can be different tactically in terms of how he wants us to create. As to your question/quip about what happens if we improve and what we become? We become a 'very, very' good side.
For me, when you have players in your squad such as Romero, VdV, Porro, Xavi, Muani, Kulusevski, Kudus, Maddison, you have a very good side (admittedly half of those are hurt)...anyway...

That's not a full 11 though. I'd expect a very good side to be at the least complete and we are far from that. We are just ok. Not terrible or poor by any means. Pretty decent to be honest, but "very good" nah that a massive stretch. I don't think anyone outside of Spurs would consider us "very good".

 

[thfcsteff]

That's not a full 11 though. I'd expect a very good side to be at the least complete and we are far from that. We are just ok. Not terrible or poor by any means. Pretty decent to be honest, but "very good" nah that a massive stretch. I don't think anyone outside of Spurs would consider us "very good".

No it wasn't a 'full side' because I did not include players such as the excellent Pahlinha and very good Bergvall...

Third in the table with what would best be called a 'minimalist' style and several very good creative players to come. Second meanest defence in the division. The only outlier is if TF does not want us being creative in a way we feel Spurs should be once he has the options. I think pretty much every manager in the division would currently say we are a 'very good' side.

Again, you argue all you like, what this comes down to is both context and personal definitions. We should absolutely 'expect' from this squad, AND add more quality to it in Jan and the summer IMO...

 

[Bishop]

No it wasn't a 'full side' because I did not include players such as the excellent Pahlinha and very good Bergvall...

Third in the table with what would best be called a 'minimalist' style and several very good creative players to come. Second meanest defence in the division. The only outlier is if TF does not want us being creative in a way we feel Spurs should be once he has the options. I think pretty much every manager in the division would currently say we are a 'very good' side.

Again, you argue all you like, what this comes down to is both context and personal definitions. We should absolutely 'expect' from this squad, AND add more quality to it in Jan and the summer IMO...

It's 9 games into the season, let's not get too carried away with our current position. If we finish 3rd you might have a point but it's way too early to be using the league table positively or negatively. I just think calling what we are very good is hyperbole and leaves little room for the massive improvements we can and I believe we will make.

Tbh I just think your definitions are just a kittle over the top. Not the first I've seen you go a little OTT regarding our players. I guess that's just what you do and cool, I'm just a little bit more grounded I guess. No shade intended.

 

[thfcsteff]

It's 9 games into the season, let's not get too carried away with our current position. If we finish 3rd you might have a point but it's way too early to be using the league table positively or negatively. I just think calling what we are very good is hyperbole and leaves little room for the massive improvements we can and I believe we will make.

Tbh I just think your definitions are just a kittle over the top. Not the first I've seen you go a little OTT regarding our players. I guess that's just what you do and cool, I'm just a little bit more grounded I guess. No shade intended.

Indeed.
Don't for a moment think I am 'fooled' by 3rd. And don't believe that I am happy with how we're playing. However this is who we are under TF, and unless HE changes, this is how we will play whether we get everyone fit/buy the sort of players we want, etc. That is the ONLY way we will see the improvements in style (those would also mean a few new players). So by that metric, yes, I am absolutely going to look for the positives wherever I can; the negatives are obvious.
FWIW I also simply presented raw facts re: our current season.



And yes, I would accept that observation about being a little OTT sometime; it certainly is a part of what I do in life. However, where I will call back on you is you specify 'players'. Who, exactly, have I been OTT about? This season, the ONLY one I'd acknowledge is Richy (I thought he would ascend) yet even there I can mitigate to an extent why he hasn't.
I wouldn't worry about 'grounded' in that sense; I know who we are, I know what we're not, and I always choose to invest energy in the former rather than the latter.
Our entire exchange started because someone said Monaco were a 'very good side' and I replied 'so are we'...and look, if Monaco 'are' a very good side (like you I am by no means an expert) then so am I.

As ever, a good discussion