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*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Emirates Marketing Project

I do think fans are an issue
I’ve said it loads
There is a toxicity in our fan base… but I haven’t been to other stadiums with other clubs fans to compare directly
However, last night was very unique. Almost a no win situation
I do feel that if we can create the cult like vibe you get a club like a pool we will do better. The actual view that we will win rather than we might win. Fans can drive that. Fans can start that
I made the comment the other week that we have an entitled fan base and people took umbrage with that but i can’t think of a better description
I regularly hear still we pay more than anyone as a reason for something too…

I’ll point to Arsenal as I feel it’s quite relevant in this case, their fanbase were far from a happy, united bunch during the last 5-6 years of Wenger. And he was their most successful manager in their history! I have family who used to be ST holders there and they often told me how toxic it was, fights breaking out etc. I know United fans get a lot stick for being glory hunters but I actually think their hardcore group of fans are fantastic. They got mullered by Palace and they still applaude
I do think fans are an issue
I’ve said it loads
There is a toxicity in our fan base… but I haven’t been to other stadiums with other clubs fans to compare directly
However, last night was very unique. Almost a no win situation
I do feel that if we can create the cult like vibe you get a club like a pool we will do better. The actual view that we will win rather than we might win. Fans can drive that. Fans can start that
I made the comment the other week that we have an entitled fan base and people took umbrage with that but i can’t think of a better description
I regularly hear still we pay more than anyone as a reason for something too…

I’ll use Arsenal as an example as it’s quite relevant given the last few days. They were far from a unified, happy bunch during the last few years under Wenger. And he was their most successful manager in their history! I have family who used to be ST holders and they regularly told me that fights used to break out at games, their fanbase was fractured. For all the stick they get I think Man U fans are pretty great, I mean their hardcore fans. They got embarrassed by Palace and still applauded them off the pitch. I’d put it down to having managers who struggled initially but turned it round and became hugely successful. They are more patient than any London team’s fans.
 
I think it's a bit unfair to label what happened last night as "small time mentality". Firstly, it was a small/miniscule minority actively supporting City. It was a larger section but still a minority who were supporting us but sang "Are you watching Arsenal" and it was a vast majority who supported us but were conflicted which manifested itself in a muted atmosphere.

Ange is looking at this logically. Fair enough. But, for fans, football is emotional and there is something in most Spurs fans that doesn't want Woolwich to win the league. That would have been true if you dropped Man U and Liverpool into our situation. Can you imagine if Celtic were playing Aberdeen in that situation with Rangers winning the league if Celtic won. What do you think would happen? Or Real Madrid and Barca.

That rivalry is what makes the atmosphere at big games. That's why derbies are a thing. Not just because you want your club to win but because you want your rivals to lose. It's the very essence of football whether he likes it or not. Unfortunately, last night, we got a very unusual manifestation of it because of the circumstances around it. But, like it or not, that wasn't specific to Spurs - it would have been very, very similar for most clubs in our position.
The vast majority of the people in the stadium did not show any kind of support for us. It was dead silent. No singing until we were 2-0 down. That's as good as supporting the opposition.

How do you think the players felt, playing at home and no one really cheering them on. You think they felt supported?
 
I’ll point to Arsenal as I feel it’s quite relevant in this case, their fanbase were far from a happy, united bunch during the last 5-6 years of Wenger. And he was their most successful manager in their history! I have family who used to be ST holders there and they often told me how toxic it was, fights breaking out etc. I know United fans get a lot stick for being glory hunters but I actually think their hardcore group of fans are fantastic. They got mullered by Palace and they still applaude


I’ll use Arsenal as an example as it’s quite relevant given the last few days. They were far from a unified, happy bunch during the last few years under Wenger. And he was their most successful manager in their history! I have family who used to be ST holders and they regularly told me that fights used to break out at games, their fanbase was fractured. For all the stick they get I think Man U fans are pretty great, I mean their hardcore fans. They got embarrassed by Palace and still applauded them off the pitch. I’d put it down to having managers who struggled initially but turned it round and became hugely successful. They are more patient than any London team’s fans.
Helps that most of their fans come from everywhere else
 
The vast majority of the people in the stadium did not show any kind of support for us. It was dead silent. No singing until we were 2-0 down. That's as good as supporting the opposition.

How do you think the players felt, playing at home and no one really cheering them on. You think they felt supported?
It got the result the fans wanted. If the players themselves can't understand the reasoning behind it then they would be a little stupid I'm sorry to say.
 
The vast majority of the people in the stadium did not show any kind of support for us. It was dead silent. No singing until we were 2-0 down. That's as good as supporting the opposition.

How do you think the players felt, playing at home and no one really cheering them on. You think they felt supported?
It was muted for sure but around me, people were willing us to score when we got into good positions.
 
The vast majority of the people in the stadium did not show any kind of support for us. It was dead silent. No singing until we were 2-0 down. That's as good as supporting the opposition.

How do you think the players felt, playing at home and no one really cheering them on. You think they felt supported?

Did the players show less effort yesterday than the games vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool or Burnley?
 
Interesting take by Eccleshare - sort of sums up how I feel about City:



And so, on May 14, 2024, modern Premier League football reached its logical next step: Tottenham Hotspur fans rooting against their team when facing Emirates Marketing Project because they’d rather lose than have rivals Arsenal win the title.
First of all, this is in no way a criticism of the fans who chose to do that. Doing so is entirely their choice and to anyone suggesting what they did was irrational: well, have you met a football fan? There’s also an extent to which this would have happened in any era given how intrinsic schadenfreude has always been to the football fan experience.
But while much of the chatter on this topic before the game centred on the rights and wrongs of wanting your team to lose, maybe that was slightly missing the point.
Rather than telling fans how to feel, perhaps we should think about how it is that we’ve ended up with a situation where celebrating rivals’ misfortune is pretty much the maximum most teams’ fans can aspire to each season. Yes, laughing at your rivals has always been a big part of being a football supporter, but it becomes a problem when that’s pretty much the only part of being a football supporter.

City, cheered on by their own fans and plenty of Spurs ones, beat Tottenham 2-0 in Tuesday’s game. They will likely win their fourth Premier League title in a row on Sunday. No team in English football history has won four consecutive titles.

This is an unprecedented period of dominance and, in that context, it’s unsurprising that supporters of other clubs have to find their enjoyment in whatever way they can.

And it’s not just the Premier League — City tend to hoover up the domestic cups as well. In the past decade, only seven English clubs have won a major trophy (the Premier League, domestic cups or one of the three European cups). In the previous decade (2005 to 2014), that number was 10. It was 10 from 1995-2004, too, and 13 from 1985-1994.

Essentially, it’s getting harder and harder for non-elite clubs to win anything, let alone the Premier League. Though an honourable mention for Watford, who nearly added to that tally of seven when they reached the FA Cup final in 2019… a final they lost 6-0 to Emirates Marketing Project.

Spurs, a much bigger club than Watford and a member of the Premier League’s ‘Big Six’, have not won a trophy for 16 years. City can’t be blamed for that — they didn’t emerge as a major force until a few years after — but that was the context for the weird situation that developed in the lead-up to Tuesday’s game and then festered during it.

The Spurs head coach, Ange Postecoglou, was irritated by the discourse before the game, saying he’d never understand not wanting your team to win, and he was raging about it after.

“Of course it does,” Postecoglou said when asked if the strange, subdued atmosphere affected the players against City. “It is what it is. I can’t dictate what people do. They’re allowed to express themselves in any way they want. But yeah, when we’ve got late winners in games, it’s because the crowd’s helped us.”

The Spurs fans weren’t hostile towards their own team and many cheered as normal, but it was a very different atmosphere from a standard big game and the City goals were followed by chants about Arsenal.

A small number of supporters did City’s “Poznan” celebration after they had taken the lead and a few wore Tottenham’s old light-blue away kit to show where their loyalties lay. Video footage emerged of Postecoglou arguing with a supporter on Tuesday night, who it’s been said was celebrating one of the City goals. On Saturday, on the way back from the 2-1 win over Burnley, some Spurs fans were singing the City anthem, “Blue Moon”.

The weirder thing in all of this is not how much Spurs fans wanted to revel in Arsenal’s misfortune — that’s totally to be expected — but how little feeling City engender in rival fans. As the dominant team in English football, one would expect them to evoke a mixture of hatred and begrudging admiration. As Manchester United and Liverpool once did. Instead, there’s generally a numbness towards City or, often, actually an appreciation for the useful role they perform in denying teams that fans of rival clubs actually care about.


When you take a step back, the situation is strange. A league that prides itself on competitiveness will almost certainly, by Sunday, have been won by the same team for the last four years and six of the last seven. Oh, and that same team is facing 115 charges for alleged breaches of Premier League rules (which they deny).

But is that team hated, or even disliked? Nah, not really. No one really has the energy or can conceive of an alternative. City winning the league is just what happens. To be bothered by it would be like getting annoyed by the colour of the sky, or complaining that there are only seven days in the week.

It’s such a weird situation that, inevitably, there will be collateral damage from time to time for people who are new to it. Like Postecoglou on Tuesday, who was furious at what he perceives to be a parochial, small-time mentality of those inside and outside the club who favoured self-sabotage over progress against City.

“I think the last 48 hours has revealed to me that the foundations are fairly fragile, mate,” he said, before adding pointedly: “What other people, how they want to feel, and what their priorities are, are of zero interest to me.”

Postecoglou is desperate to compete with City, but with Pep Guardiola in charge and the current ownership in place, how realistic is that? As Arsenal and Liverpool have found out, you can do all the right things and you’ll still almost always fall short. So the general feeling is by all means go for it but, in the meantime, fans of most clubs take their kicks when they can get them.

It was almost forgotten in the local rivalry psychodrama that Spurs would have had a decent chance of qualifying for the Champions League if they’d beaten City on Tuesday night. But even that prospect has left a lot of fans cold over the last few months, with many feeling that there’s little point qualifying for a competition you have no real chance of winning.

And so to the final day of the Premier League season, which will naturally be hyped up, even though everyone knows the chances of much drama are minimal.

There were genuine laughs in the press room on Tuesday night when Sky Sports tried to big up the last round of games and the potential for a thrilling finish. City last lost in the league in December and aside from games against their title rivals Arsenal and Liverpool, have dropped two Premier League points in 2024.

Their record-breaking fourth title will be met largely with indifference by the rest of the country. Aside from the relief that Spurs fans feel that Arsenal haven’t won the title; just how Everton and other supporters felt two years ago when it was Liverpool denied by City on the final day.

Those emotions are about as good as it gets for most supporters in 2024 and while, to some extent, it’s ever been thus, it’s never quite been like this.
 
Helps that most of their fans come from everywhere else

I think that’s the stereotype of their fans not being from Manchester but I’d bet it’s split fairly evenly at the very least. If you lived in Manchester and lived closer to OT than the etihad why would you NOT support United? And their away fans typically have a pretty strong Manchester contingent.
 
I think that’s the stereotype of their fans not being from Manchester but I’d bet it’s split fairly evenly at the very least. If you lived in Manchester and lived closer to OT than the etihad why would you NOT support United? And their away fans typically have a pretty strong Manchester contingent.
I’m being sarcatsic
Their away support is great and very mancunian
Their home support less so
 
The vast majority of the people in the stadium did not show any kind of support for us. It was dead silent. No singing until we were 2-0 down. That's as good as supporting the opposition.

How do you think the players felt, playing at home and no one really cheering them on. You think they felt supported?

I’d like to think as footballers they would understand how rivalries work and the conflicting emotions of the occasion.

I hope we play city at home in August next year and for the rest of time so this fudging scenario doesn’t ever happen again.
 
Did the players show less effort yesterday than the games vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool or Burnley?
Probably not, I don't know, but they might have performed even better with the full stadium belting out support and pushing them!
I'd argue that Liverpool have probably won a fair few points just because their fans push them forward.
 
The same Villa that folded against us in a "must win" game? Or the one that lost 6-2 on aggregate to Olympiakos, of all teams? More often than not, when it has really mattered this season Villa have choked. So yeah, a win or draw against Palace would not have been a fait accompli by any stretch.
Using the same logic, we would have choked as well.
 
Agree
People seem to think that Arsenal will improve and maybe others won’t
Worth noting that they will end the season with potentially 5 more points after investing £200m and having no injuries
They will likely need another 5 to get on to of city assuming city improve a bit
But then we may improve… pool may… United may
The league gets harder every year
Arsenal are a slightly larger us.
Some of the players will be getting tapped up and will be more willing to leave if they fall short again.
 
Probably not, I don't know, but they might have performed even better with the full stadium belting out support and pushing them!
I'd argue that Liverpool have probably won a fair few points just because their fans push them forward.

Fan support can certainly help and often has helped Liverpool.

But i'm not buying that we've missed out on top 4 and have lost 5 out of 6 games because of the fans...
 
Support was muted but it was there. The overwhelming majority of fans (all except 1) I spoke to didn't want us to lose.
So why no singing? virtually no audible support. And what you're saying is wrong. Most were not one bit disappointed to see us lose.
The whole thing was just baffling and very disappointing. But Eccleshare has a point in that it's become such a one team show, that relishing in rivals misfortune is probably the only "glory" other teams get.
 
This isn't about the last 4-5 games. It's about the game vs City, where fans showed no support to their team, and wanted them to lose.
Yes, just one game...amongst a plethora of games.

If it was very common occurrence it would be much more of an issue imo
 
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