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New Stadium and Training Ground - Pg 104 Northumberland Park master plan

japenesegardenlover said:
Right this is for one of the guys that knows finance because it is not my strongest area.

Just been reading that wenger says that now the staidum is paid off at arsenal they can go out and spend big. So how long has it taken them to pay off their stadium? thing in there favour are the champions league money and the flats they sold.

So can we expect to pay it off as quickly, we don't have champs league money coming in but have a lower wage bill, i know we got ome grants and are doing some residential but i guess not as valuable as in arsenal.

Anyone know how much the stadium build will actually cost us? i have seen anything from 250m to 500m i mean the cost of the flats and supermarket should not be brought into it because we wont be paying for that. How much will the actual stadium cost and will we be paying it off for decades or can we expect to be going out and making big name signings after 7 or 8 years.
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Stadium itself will cost in the region of £250 million. NDP as a whole will cost in the region of £450 million.

Arsenal have principally been able to pay off the debt early (after a mere six years) as a consequence of their various property developments in the area (not just the Highbury conversion). I guess that Spurs are looking to do something similar since, in addition to the NDP housing, we seem to be a partner in a major housing project a bit further up the High Road. Maybe other projects on the cards too?

But you're right that it will likely take us longer because property prices in north Tottenham are so much lower than they are in Highbury.

That said, we are certain to sign a far better naming rights deal than Arsenal's with the Emirates. Arsenal famously ballsed up by undervaluing the worth of their new stadium. Levy won't make that kind of mistake with our stadium (which is one of the reasons why the funding has probably taken so long).
 
Rorschach said:
Is the funding dependent on a major naming rights deal?


Edit: Very interesting post above Bedford
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That would have a big impact but its not something that would become public until they have a clear cost breakdown.

I can't even find out if any principle QS's have been appointed by Spurs so I'd guess its still a long way off.

I'm meeting with a few big consultants this week who may know more as its right up their street and they know I'm a seaso ticket holder so normally use Spurs as an in ( and one of them is a decent gooner :()

I think we simply don't currently have the money lined up. I'd love to be wrong but if a £70B turnover retailer couldn't currently finance a deal like this without major inputs from third parties I can't see how we can.

The sponsorship would have to be underwritten and cover approx 60/70% of the ground cost. Not unreasonable but there aren't many companies out there throwing that money around. IIRC arsenal got their deal whilst building.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
That would have a big impact but its not something that would become public until they have a clear cost breakdown.

I can't even find out if any principle QS's have been appointed by Spurs so I'd guess its still a long way off.

I'm meeting with a few big consultants this week who may know more as its right up their street and they know I'm a seaso ticket holder so normally use Spurs as an in ( and one of them is a decent gooner :()

I think we simply don't currently have the money lined up. I'd love to be wrong but if a £70B turnover retailer couldn't currently finance a deal like this without major inputs from third parties I can't see how we can.

The sponsorship would have to be underwritten and cover approx 60/70% of the ground cost. Not unreasonable but there aren't many companies out there throwing that money around. IIRC arsenal got their deal whilst building.
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Thanks for that - and for putting me right on the current likely cost of the stadium and overall project, allowing for the depth of the recession!
 
Have Arsenal paid off their stadium debt? I've seen nothing reporting that. Their debt had two components. One a long-term debt (20+ years) of around £250m for the stadium, at around 5% interest which was considered very favourable at the time. This costs them around 18-20m a year. The second component was effectively a bridging loan of £100-150m to do the Highbury flats, etc. This was the more expensive bit and lasted longer than expected due to slowness in selling the flats. Arsenal have announced that this debt is full cleared and that there are still some flats to sell. I'd guess that this is why they now have money to spend, though all along they have claimed to have money available for players.

I've see a similar £250m number for our stadium and total costs of around £450m for the whole project. I think this is more or less consistent Bedfordspurs' numbers. Say £150m for the base stadium, plus another £100m tarting it up and doing the plaza. If the £450m estimate includes the properties we have bought for the site, that's would take off £50+ million, leaving £100-150m for the supermarket and housing developments. Does this seem reasonable?

If Sainsburys pay upfront for the supermarket and we get a decent naming rights deal partially paid upfront, that could take off say £100-150m from the amount we have to borrow. There could also be some profits from the Tavern Park development, which I think was around 30 flats. So perhaps we'd only need a loan of £200-250m, effectively the stadium, and then profits from the housing would help pay off part of this, leaving a lower long-term debt. If the costs of servicing this are £15-20m, then we will be better much better off as we be getting up to an extra £40-50m from gate and corporate entertaining
 
IMO, I don't see a problem in funding at all. Stadium will start in June. I have every belief that the big man will underwrite everything needed to get this underway, if indeed he needs too. Which I don't think he will be needed too.
 
Superhudd said:
IMO, I don't see a problem in funding at all. Stadium will start in June. I have every belief that the big man will underwrite everything needed to get this underway, if indeed he needs too. Which I don't think he will be needed too.
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i agree and think the usa and maybe aeg is the key. another aarticle about usa on os with nba guys and then there was the fat guy from man v food on the site the other day walking around crying at being in whl. under armour deal, usa tours. its always usa now. are spurs bending to demands if aeg with a gentleman agreement on sale of club in a few years? aeg always said once 'we always keep interested and close with that club'. ppl starting to believe football now taking hold in usa i think. if you wanted a club you would go prem, london, spurs surely?

i think aeg is selling o2 arena but not sure if thats relevent
 
jimmyb said:
That said, we are certain to sign a far better naming rights deal than Arsenal's with the Emirates. Arsenal famously ballsed up by undervaluing the worth of their new stadium. Levy won't make that kind of mistake with our stadium (which is one of the reasons why the funding has probably taken so long).
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No they didn't, they were actually paid in cash which is why they agreed to accept a lower value.
 
P.D. said:
No they didn't, they were actually paid in cash which is why they agreed to accept a lower value.
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They got some of the money up front - which made it a slightly less bad deal. But it was still a bad deal. Pretty much universally recognised as such - even by those with Arsenal connections.

Arsenal received a total of £100 million for 15 years stadium naming rights and 8 years shirt sponsorship.

Their shirt sponsorship alone should have earned them more than £100 million.
 
Superhudd said:
IMO, I don't see a problem in funding at all. Stadium will start in June. I have every belief that the big man will underwrite everything needed to get this underway, if indeed he needs too. Which I don't think he will be needed too.
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By the big man do you mean your name sake or Joe Lewis?

Lewis doesn't appear to have out any money into the club and leaves ENIC well alone. He has them,only to back it but hasn't to date otherwise it would have started a long while ago.

I'm meeting Aecom on Friday and also what was Scott Wilson and both of those have been involved in major UK infrastructure projects and stadiums so ill see what can find out

Sainsburys will only be paying us a small amount for the land. A 100k ft2 site for them fully built would only cost £20M plus land so we won't be making much in that. We will clearly make money in a hotel and flats though.
 
I know its the American market but I was reading that the new owners of the Cleveland Browns have decided to go out and get naming rights for its stadium. Its previous owner Randy Lerner never did. It will be interesting what a small market franchise is able to put together.
When you see two American sports brands like Warrior and Under Armour both paying quite a bit to get its name in the European market one does have to ask how many more out there. I believe that we need a fig in the £10m a year ballpark fig on a 15-20 year deal. This figure hopefully underwritten by Big Joe or his banker ***friends*** whether it's by bonds or in one hit by a super rich Tottenham fan. Wonders what Goldman Sachs are going to do with all its bonus money!!!
Looking at the new TV cash, the increase being an average 14m extra season, so say we are top 5 in the tv stakes, the money could extend to nearer an extra 20m a season. This money in itself would go along way in paying the bills. Add the extra revenue generated from the extra seats and vip then one has to wonder how they couldn't not start building the stadium.

IMO whats holding it up more than anything, Levy wringing the wet towel from local and main government departments until no more water comes out of it.

I would be happy with putting every penny of the Bale sale into the stadium as well, if it meant cutting last repayment date by 5 years.

Talking about Levy's friends. AEG are supposed to have in place an agreement for naming rights of a new stadium in Los Angeles should the NFL grant a new team to the West coast. Value $23.3m/year for 20 to 30 years.
 
Howard Webb said:
Mega detailed stadium plans on haringey website http://www.planningservices.haringey.gov.uk/portal/servlets/AttachmentShowServlet?ImageName=262249

Could be a sign. Could be nothing. But it's very arousing.
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I dunno about the rest but it's definitely not a sign!

That's the previous plan, with the hotel and that single, long, curved residential block.

It's quite possible that the actual stadium plan is still largely unaltered, though, even if rumours and a Haringey document suggest that "material changes" to the stadium design could be forthcoming.
 
That's an old scheme. It still has the crescent shaped housing unit to the south (right) and the hotel to the SE.
 
I still think I'd prefer to look at that, than virtually all the discussion in this thread.

Ill be watching for updates from Bedford though!
 
for those that can't be bothered to click the link ;)
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