• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Moussa Sissoko

nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Doing something of worth wouldnt necessarily be getting an assist, or a goal. It would be getting the ball to the right people, in the right places, at the right time so the assist/goal/chance can follow.

Dembele wasnt amazing at this, but he was a damn sight better than Sissoko.

When Sissoko breaks the lines - so exciting, so dynamic, fans everywhere spontaneously creaming themselves - I always wait for the point of the run.

Most of the time there isnt one.
Click to expand...

Dembele a “damnsight” better? No he wasn’t. In fact, last season he often lost possession after his mazy forays.

As for your last paragraph, he often finds the wide option ahead in good space from which we usually see either a poor cross or sometimes a chance created. He is not 100% obviously, but as we saw tonight, when he is on the pitch our dynamic going forward is changed to something very positive.

I know we are here again, but honestly, I’d have kept my fingers quiet were it not for your (as usual with Sissoko) late challenge whenever you perceive him to be getting more praise than you deem appropriate.
 
scaramanga said:
Hmmmmm.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1068545646469279744

He's no Dembele. Dembele's deep progressions is on the very outside edge of that radar.
Click to expand...

Can I ask, what did Dembele achieve for us? And did Dembele ever play a season without several first team players being fit? The greatest tragedy of Dembele’s career is that Poch didn’t get him in his early 20s; he could’ve developed into one of the greatest midfielder of his generations. Instead, he became a player who was impossible to wrestle off the ball, yet someone who couldn’t arrive at a decision as to what to do with it in time for an effective outcome.
 
I must say I find that we are still arguing if Sissoko is important or affects our play rather odd. Again I don't see the value of comparing Dembele and Sissoko especially now the former has left the club and the choice of playing either/or is no longer available. Take last night for example, there can be little doubt that Sissoko turned the game in our favour. I have seen the introduction of Dembele do the same though. So my conclusion is that they are and have been important players in their own right. We do not need to denigrate one to highlight the other.

I also find odd the notion that because we appeared to play better during the Saturday City game and the Wednesday one and perhaps in the Brighton one that demonstrates Sissoko is not important. Kane and Winks were also missing in those games. Does that mean we are better with out them too? The argument reminds me of the stat that shows our win percentage is better without Kane. For me that just shows that specific stats do not show the complete picture and need to be used with care.

Conveniently the West Ham game which we lost and the presence of both Sissoko and Kane would have likely led to a different result is left out of the argument.
 
Last edited:
harr1984 said:
Sissoko is primarily in the CM for defensive purposes, to get around the pitch and cover especially the right full back area where we’ve proved to be so unreliable. The fact he breaks the lines and drives with pace is an added bonus. You talk like he’s constantly fluffing his lines, he doesn’t. Most of the time he gives it to one of our attackers, there’s only a handful of times at best he’s missed a chance like say the one at Liverpool and he’s not in the team to be a finisher. You claim Dier is a far superior player, he really isn’t. What the hell does Dier add? He serves his purpose defensively but slows the play down massively with his pedestrian sideways and backwards passing which we don’t need against 90% of teams who just sit back against us. Yet again he much improved us tonight on the biggest stage against quality opposition....
Click to expand...

Its only an added bonus if it results in something positive. Breaking the lines, in and of itself, isnt actually that big a contribution - as people seem to think it is. Its only such if then there is a valuable pass etc afterwards.

He breaks the lines a fair bit, he is good at it. The pass afterwards? Not so much. So I have to return to the original point - his introduction and "breaking the lines" being presented as some sort of solution, well it really isnt.

Dier is a much smarter player, positionally much better, uses the ball better. He keeps things ticking over so that when we get players in advanced positions they are the ones who can make it count. Its unglamorous but key stuff.

I cant deny Dier hasnt been on his best form this season, but even so he is for me the better footballer by a distance.



thfcsteff said:
Dembele a “damnsight” better? No he wasn’t. In fact, last season he often lost possession after his mazy forays.

As for your last paragraph, he often finds the wide option ahead in good space from which we usually see either a poor cross or sometimes a chance created. He is not 400% obviously, but as we saw tonight, when he is on the pitch our dynamic going forward is changed to something very positive.

I know we are here again, but honestly, I’d have kept my fingers quiet were it not for your (as usual with Sissoko) late challenge whenever you perceive him to be getting more praise than you deem appropriate.
Click to expand...

Last season when his legs were failing and we should have sold him? How about before?

You are of course free to disagree, but I would suggest on form Dembele was a hell of a lot better than Sissoko at breaking the lines and then doing something useful with the ball. I would often complain that he held the ball to much, but even so he gave it to players who can do damage in areas they can do damage far better than Sissoko. This is not an attempt to slate Sissoko, it is simply illustrative of the difference, in context of the conversation which started with people lauding Sissokos "breaking the lines" ability.

I think Sissoko has had far more praise - for footballing ability - than he deserves. Its way OTT, the meter has broken as it doesnt go round far enough for what he has been getting. So what? Am I not supposed to discuss these things? Am I to just virtually nod along with the rest of the crowd?

It is entirely possible to comment on a players weaknesses without it being an attack on him. I do wish people would try and separate the post from the poster, because whenever I say anything about him its always jumped on regardless of content.
 
Robspur12 said:
I must say I find that we are still arguing if Sissoko is important or affects our play rather odd. Again I don't see the value of comparing Dembele and Sissoko especially now the former has left the club and the choice of playing either/or is no longer available. Take last night for example, there can be little doubt that Sissoko turned the game in our favour. I have seen the introduction of Dembele do the same though. So my conclusion is that they are and have been important players in their own right. We do not need to denigrate one to highlight the other.

I also find odd the notion that because we appeared to play better during the Saturday City game and the Wednesday one and perhaps in the Brighton one that demonstrates Sissoko is not important. Kane and Winks were also missing in those games. Does that mean we are better with out them too? The argument reminds me of the stat that shows our win percentage is better without Kane. For me that just shows that specific stats do not show the complete picture and need to be used with care.

Conveniently the West Ham game which we lost and the presence of both Sissoko and Kane would have likely led to a different result is left out of the argument.
Click to expand...

I didnt watch the West Ham game, so simply cannot comment on it.

I thought it notable that we were a more cohesive team when Sissoko wasnt there, more fluid, more joined up - its an observation and not an attempt to denigrate the player. Its the sort of thing Ive been expecting, but he is never injured so there has been no chance to see if its the case.

I do not deny Sissoko has been important this season.

Neither do I deny he affects our play. He does, though IMO (and yes, the unpopular opinion) not really to the betterment of the team.

I see his introduction last night is being raised as further proof of his GHod like status.

I think his energy made a big difference, for sure. I would also suggest though that the change in shape was as, if not more, impactful.

Genuinely I felt Poch got the starting 11 wrong. As soon as he went back to the 4-2-3-1 things improved massively. I think we would have seen big improvement had it been Winks/Dier coming on as well.

Though I was happy it was Sissoko as his energy was required to get things turning over. A bit like Lamela is good for.
 
Nayim, you're right that you are entitled to your opinion, but I fail to see how Sissoko can be deemed as not bettering the team at the moment. Last night we were at sea, with a leaky life raft and no real idea of which way land was, until he came on, and his presence actually aided in settling down Wanyama, who against the backdrop of barely having played for 12 months due to injury, found himself the sole muscle in a midfield that was being overrun by agile little Dutchmen, and for 40 minutes was awful.

We instantly looked harder to break through, we had more attacking threat, and the crowd lifted which seemed to lift the players. Sissoko is not the messiah. He's not a naughty boy either though. And you seem intent on belittling his contribution.

If we're going to get through this tie and reach the final, Sissoko's going to be needed in the second leg, hopefully with Dier a week fitter, and Wanyama too.
 
Could only watch the first and last fifteen minutes yesterday, got to the pub and saw this confident player grabbing hold of the ball, moving with it and distributing it confidently out wide and forward. Was dominating proceedings. I knew this was Sissoko obviously but it was still startling to see how good he has become and great to see he didn’t seem to be playing through injury and instead was straight back into top form and mobility.
 
Surfless said:
Nayim, you're right that you are entitled to your opinion, but I fail to see how Sissoko can be deemed as not bettering the team at the moment. Last night we were at sea, with a leaky life raft and no real idea of which way land was, until he came on, and his presence actually aided in settling down Wanyama, who against the backdrop of barely having played for 12 months due to injury, found himself the sole muscle in a midfield that was being overrun by agile little Dutchmen, and for 40 minutes was awful.

We instantly looked harder to break through, we had more attacking threat, and the crowd lifted which seemed to lift the players. Sissoko is not the messiah. He's not a naughty boy either though. And you seem intent on belittling his contribution.

If we're going to get through this tie and reach the final, Sissoko's going to be needed in the second leg, hopefully with Dier a week fitter, and Wanyama too.
Click to expand...


As I said in another thread, I think the change in shape was as, if not more important than Sissoko coming on.

That is not to say he didnt make a contribution. I thought he was good last night and certainly made an impact.

However, putting a body in midfield and pushing Alli/Eriksen that little further forward was the real key, IMO.

There are a few ideas at play that people seem to cross over and conflate.

Has Sissoko been an important player this season? Yes, absolutely.

Has Sissoko improved as a player? YES! - Far more than I ever thought possible.

Does that mean he is a particularly good footballer? No, it doesnt.

Does that mean he is the type of player we actually need to improve our team? Again, no - not for me.

Do I appreciate his journey? Who couldnt? I think the guy has shown massive heart, its a really charming thing that he has come back from the absolute brink to play a big part of the season.

Does that mean I think he has a future here? No, it doesnt. Despite all the positives for him this season, ultimately, I just dont think he is either good enough or "right" enough for this team.


I have no desire to belittle him at all. All Ive ever done is said what I think is true. And I really do think people have got REALLY carried away with what he actually is/isnt.

I am pretty sure we will buy a CM in the summer, hopefully a good one ;O) and by about October people are going to be looking at him and wondering what it was they saw in Sissoko other than the charm of his attitude.

Which makes me sound so arrogant, I know, but its really not intended that way. I think this season has been an utter brick show personell and play wise, and Sissoko and his story have been a bright spot for many to latch onto. Get caught up in it all. And I just think, cold light of day (and with a good comparison in the team when its all fit etc) people might revisit what Sissoko really is/offers etc.
 
You know what, for that they are often knocked I wish our other players showed the belief and will to win as a team and individually as Sissoko and lamela.
We just don't seem to have it in us to believe.
I've said it before, everything is there for this squad to win these games and trophy.
 
thfcsteff said:
So you believe if we had bought Skipp on in that change of shape, the improvement would've been the same?
Click to expand...

Exactly the same? Of course not. Very similar? Quite likely.

I already noted Sissoko played well and showed a lot of much needed energy. I havent actually written off his contribution. Rather, Ive added context to it.

People talk as if Sissoko being on the pitch made all the difference, I feel the tactical switch was as, if not more of a factor. Thats all.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Exactly the same? Of course not. Very similar? Quite likely.

I already noted Sissoko played well and showed a lot of much needed energy. I havent actually written off his contribution. Rather, Ive added context to it.

People talk as if Sissoko being on the pitch made all the difference, I feel the tactical switch was as, if not more of a factor. Thats all.
Click to expand...

There is a psychological term for this, my friend..... argumentative contortionism
 
Maltese Falcon said:
There is a psychological term for this, my friend..... argumentative contortionism
Click to expand...

My psyche is just fine.

I have given a dispassionate view of the player at every stage, recognising his improvement, strengths and weaknesses. Always fair.

For some reason that gets read on here as some sort of maniac with an axe to grind.

If there are mental issues to be seen, it would be with that side of things - not me.
 
scaramanga said:
Hmmmmm.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1068545646469279744

He's no Dembele. Dembele's deep progressions is on the very outside edge of that radar.
Click to expand...

Finally, I can agree with you on thing about Sissoko. He is definitely no Dembele. Much as he was pleasing on the eye, Dembele never - ever - was able to take game in which which we were under the cosh bigtime and drag us back from the precipice. Indeed, he was one of the first to wilt and disappear into his shell at the least sign of a game running away from us.

You really can't get a break with Sissoko, can you? Just a handful of hours after your post, Sissoko comes off the bench and, almost singlehandedly, keeps us in a tie that looked lost in the minutes before he entered.
 
Maltese Falcon said:
Finally, I can agree with you on thing about Sissoko. He is definitely no Dembele. Much as he was pleasing on the eye, Dembele never - ever - was able to take game in which which we were under the cosh bigtime and drag us back from the precipice. Indeed, he was one of the first to wilt and disappear into his shell at the least sign of a game running away from us.

You really can't get a break with Sissoko, can you? Just a handful of hours after your post, Sissoko comes off the bench and, almost singlehandedly, keeps us in a tie that looked lost in the minutes before he entered.
Click to expand...

Juve away last year

Dembele took charge and controlled the game after we were 2 nil down
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Exactly the same? Of course not. Very similar? Quite likely.

I already noted Sissoko played well and showed a lot of much needed energy. I havent actually written off his contribution. Rather, Ive added context to it.

People talk as if Sissoko being on the pitch made all the difference, I feel the tactical switch was as, if not more of a factor. Thats all.
Click to expand...
You thought we looked better when Rose moved into midfield and Jan to LWB? I'm genuinely asking because I didn't see it that way.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back