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Mousa Dembele

Re: Official - Mousa Dembele

Yiddo said:
No one is asking him to become a Modric type play maker, i think what people want is for him to release the ball once he has taken on his man rather than holding onto it for to long. If he cannot adapt to that then he shouldn't be playing football.
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Again it's not as simple as just releasing the ball once he has taken on his man. Because this won't always be the right decision. He needs to learn when and how to release the ball, be that one touch and quickly to release a runner, after beating three men and opening up space in behind their fullback or laying the ball back as soon as he gets it to a centre half.

It's not as simple as just saying 'here Moussa, pass the ball a bit more will you', it's about teaching him how he should react to the millions of different possible situations during a game. As I've said, for someone his age (who's probably been playing the way he plays from the age of 11 right through to pro football) it's a very difficult task.
 
Re: Official - Mousa Dembele

Millsy_Yiddo said:
Again it's not as simple as just releasing the ball once he has taken on his man. Because this won't always be the right decision. He needs to learn when and how to release the ball, be that one touch and quickly to release a runner, after beating three men and opening up space in behind their fullback or laying the ball back as soon as he gets it to a centre half.

It's not as simple as just saying 'here Moussa, pass the ball a bit more will you', it's about teaching him how he should react to the millions of different possible situations during a game. As I've said, for someone his age (who's probably been playing the way he plays from the age of 11 right through to pro football) it's a very difficult task.
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He is a professional footballer for a reason. I don't think you are giving him enough credit for his ability, you see all types of players change the way they play under a different philosophy.
 
Re: Official - Mousa Dembele

Yiddo said:
He is a professional footballer for a reason. I don't think you are giving him enough credit for his ability, you see all types of players change the way they play under a different philosophy.
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Can you name another player who has changed from being predominantly a dribbler to being a passer?
 
Re: Official - Mousa Dembele

milo said:
Can you name another player who has changed from being predominantly a dribbler to being a passer?
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Like i said, no one is saying they want him to turn into some deep lying play maker. You do not need to be Xavi to know when to release the ball and when to keep hold of it.
 
Re: Official - Mousa Dembele

Yiddo said:
Like i said, no one is saying they want him to turn into some deep lying play maker. You do not need to be Xavi to know when to release the ball and when to keep hold of it.
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In which case we should probably hold this conversation until after Christmas and see how he gets on under Poch
 
Re: Official - Mousa Dembele

That said, I think that Poch's system needs a deep lying play maker.
 
Re: Official - Mousa Dembele

milo said:
That said, I think that Poch's system needs a deep lying play maker.
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Schneiderlin is that player, or Capoue for us. Dembele is definitely not that but he would compliment such a player well I think if he got some form back.
 
Re: Official - Mousa Dembele

I I can't dance more, neither of those are deep lying playmakers. They are defensive midfielders, every stat they excel in is defensive orientated. Schneiderlin has a little more game than Capoue as he's a touch more mobile, he understands pass and move but he's not a playmaker by any stretch, he's not going to sit in the pocket and boss a game, I feel he's really misunderstood on this forum or people are just hoping for something that isn't there. He's about as creative as the much maligned Dembele.
 
Re: Official - Mousa Dembele

Watch how he gets past the player here on 33 seconds, just so easy, he could do this stuff all day.

[video=youtube;V1npWjYRXxU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1npWjYRXxU[/video]
 
Re: Official - Mousa Dembele

I remember Hoddle saying once about how frustrating he must be to coach as one day he looks a world beater and another day like he has no idea how to be a footballer

I love the way he drifts past people, I feel this 1st part of the season is his last chance, if he doesnt perform he will be gone
 
Re: Official - Mousa Dembele

The more of these vids that pop up here showing him blasting shots from range, the more I'm convinced with what I said earlier, especially from central area's. We have the players up there to release him in some space, or into a 1v1.
 
Re: Official - Mousa Dembele

Rossi22 said:
Didn't have one at Southampton.
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He's got a better pass on him than any of our central midfielders other than possibly Bentaleb. Capoue has shown flashes but I find it hard to form a firm opinion when he was in and out of the side and suffered with injuries last season. The rest are all poor passers and hamper our chances of getting the ball towards quickly.
 
Re: Official - Mousa Dembele

Yiddo said:
He is a professional footballer for a reason. I don't think you are giving him enough credit for his ability, you see all types of players change the way they play under a different philosophy.
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Don't get me wrong, I think he has fantastic ability. But he frustrates the life out of me because if he could learn to release the ball at the right times, he could be a genuinely incredible player. That is what makes me think that if he had the ability to learn the skill he would have by now, because it would elevate him so much that there is no way that no coach throughout his entire career has tried to coach it into him.

I'd love to see him learn though, because he'd be a fantastic asset to us if he can. Be interesting to see what Poch does with him.
 
Re: Official - Mousa Dembele

Rossi22 said:
I I can't dance more, neither of those are deep lying playmakers. They are defensive midfielders, every stat they excel in is defensive orientated. Schneiderlin has a little more game than Capoue as he's a touch more mobile, he understands pass and move but he's not a playmaker by any stretch, he's not going to sit in the pocket and boss a game, I feel he's really misunderstood on this forum or people are just hoping for something that isn't there. He's about as creative as the much maligned Dembele.
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Which stats are you talking about?

Looking at the Southampton stats from last season: http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/18/Archive/England-Southampton

Of Southampton players Schneiderlin had the highest number of passes per game (58.5), the highest pass completion rate (89.3%), only goalkeepers and defenders had more accurate long balls per game than him (4.2). None of those are defensively oriented.

Where he scores low in the stats is through balls per game (0.1), key passes per game (0.9) and assists in total (1). But those are not numbers that all deep lying playmakers typically score highly in imo.
 
Re: Official - Mousa Dembele

Millsy_Yiddo said:
Don't get me wrong, I think he has fantastic ability. But he frustrates the life out of me because if he could learn to release the ball at the right times, he could be a genuinely incredible player. That is what makes me think that if he had the ability to learn the skill he would have by now, because it would elevate him so much that there is no way that no coach throughout his entire career has tried to coach it into him.

I'd love to see him learn though, because he'd be a fantastic asset to us if he can. Be interesting to see what Poch does with him.
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Agreed.

What makes me less hopeful is that the complaints we have about him are very similar to what Fulham fans were saying about him when we signed him. So it's not just our system or AVB that are to blame.

What makes me more hopeful is that Poch showed with players like Lambert that he can teach old dogs new tricks and the fact that Dembele has only (relatively) recently been moved to the position/role he plays most frequently for us so his learning curve might still be fairly steep.
 
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