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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

billyiddo said:
Unless im reading Pirate wrong he seems to be conplaining about our wide AMs having to cover for the FBs as opposed to the high press we (sometimes manage to) deploy - which is something i don't think really happens all that much
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The high press has certainly only been seen in fits and starts so far under Poch.

I agree with you, I cannot think of a successful side that does not ask its attacking players to provide defensive cover.
 
milo said:
My understand behind getting attacking players pressing is that a high number of chances are created by turnover high up the pitch. So, if you can harry defenders into making a mistake, there is a good chance that you can create a scoring opportunity from it. In this sense, it is an attacking tactic as well as a defensive one.
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That's the logic and it works well if you do it as a unit

When you don't you leave your full back exposed like Chadli did on Saturday

We really don't look ready to play a high pressing game yet which I just don't get as were clearly fitter than most sides... But I think we have more casual players
 
Big Fat Sam said on MotD on Saturday that his pet hate was giving the ball away in your own half as it often leads to giving goals away... it is OK to lose it in their half but not yours... that is the idea behind the high press.

Billyiddo / Pirate55... people were moaning at Chadli for not helping Davies with the header with Vardy... I didn't really understand that because Chadli wouldn't be expected to be back there going for headers. Perhaps Dier or Mason should have been challenging or covering the flick on. As it was, Vertonghen, Mason, Dier and Walker all watched and waited to see if Davies beat Vardy in the air and only then reacted... which was 1 second too late. Perhaps Chadli should have been pressing like Alli was, but it was 82 mins into a super-hot 30 degree game so he was knackered. Chadli is a big muscular guy, he is a 200m runner or 100m runner, not a marathon runner, he was always going to wilt and stop running before 90 mins was up.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
That's the logic and it works well if you do it as a unit

When you don't you leave your full back exposed like Chadli did on Saturday

We really don't look ready to play a high pressing game yet which I just don't get as were clearly fitter than most sides... But I think we have more casual players
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If the attacking players are committed further up the field then it is the job of the central midfielders to cover the full backs.
 
Bullet said:
Big Fat Sam said on MotD on Saturday that his pet hate was giving the ball away in your own half as it often leads to giving goals away... it is OK to lose it in their half but not yours... that is the idea behind the high press.

Billyiddo / Pirate55... people were moaning at Chadli for not helping Davies with the header with Vardy... I didn't really understand that because Chadli wouldn't be expected to be back there going for headers. Perhaps Dier or Mason should have been challenging or covering the flick on. As it was, Vertonghen, Mason, Dier and Walker all watched and waited to see if Davies beat Vardy in the air and only then reacted... which was 1 second too late. Perhaps Chadli should have been pressing like Alli was, but it was 82 mins into a super-hot 30 degree game so he was knackered. Chadli is a big muscular guy, he is a 200m runner or 100m runner, not a marathon runner, he was always going to wilt and stop running before 90 mins was up.
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That's kind of my point Bullet - our wide players aren't doing what Pirate is complaining about (doing too much defensive work to the detriment of their attacking play) Chadli is a prime example.
 
Bullet said:
Big Fat Sam said on MotD on Saturday that his pet hate was giving the ball away in your own half as it often leads to giving goals away... it is OK to lose it in their half but not yours... that is the idea behind the high press.

Billyiddo / Pirate55... people were moaning at Chadli for not helping Davies with the header with Vardy... I didn't really understand that because Chadli wouldn't be expected to be back there going for headers. Perhaps Dier or Mason should have been challenging or covering the flick on. As it was, Vertonghen, Mason, Dier and Walker all watched and waited to see if Davies beat Vardy in the air and only then reacted... which was 1 second too late. Perhaps Chadli should have been pressing like Alli was, but it was 82 mins into a super-hot 30 degree game so he was knackered. Chadli is a big muscular guy, he is a 200m runner or 100m runner, not a marathon runner, he was always going to wilt and stop running before 90 mins was up.
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I agree with you Bullet. Plus Chadli had just made Alli's goal not a minute before. He was as he should have been covering his Leicester full back. Why he should have been behind Davies is a mystery to me - that is the job of the two DMs. Where were they?
 
Pirate55 said:
I agree with you Bullet. Plus Chadli had just made Alli's goal not a minute before. He was as he should have been covering his Leicester full back. Why he should have been behind Davies is a mystery to me - that is the job of the two DMs. Where were they?
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But you're complaining that the wide players are covering for the full backs, this clearly isn't happening and as Milo shows in the post above it's the CMs that are covering
 
billyiddo said:
But you're complaining that the wide players are covering for the full backs, this clearly isn't happening and as Milo shows in the post above it's the CMs that are covering
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No, I am complaining that Poch and others EXPECT our wide players to cover our full backs. Look at all the criticism they get for leaving them one on one. That is putting them in two minds as to what their real role entails and it is that confusion that is leading to our ineffectiveness in both areas - attack and defence. That is why I don't like 4231. Too confusing for AMs
 
Pirate55 said:
No, I am complaining that Poch and others EXPECT our wide players to cover our full backs. Look at all the criticism they get for leaving them one on one. That is putting them in two minds as to what their real role entails and it is that confusion that is leading to our ineffectiveness in both areas - attack and defence. That is why I don't like 4231. Too confusing for AMs
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I'm not sure where the confusion is to be honest - When the full backs are attacking the CMs are covering them, whilst the wide forwards are supporting in the attacking positions - when the team is defending as a whole the attacking players are expected to get back in to position to pitch in.

Our full backs weren't attacking when Leicester scored from the k/o and so the team should have been switched on defensively as opposition had possession in the middle third of the pitch - I haven't rewatched the game so can't really comment on Chadlis involvement (or lack of) in the goal but iirc they attacked down his side - so it's not out of the ordinary to expect him, as the first line of defence, to be involved defensively...
 
Pirate55 said:
No, I am complaining that Poch and others EXPECT our wide players to cover our full backs. Look at all the criticism they get for leaving them one on one. That is putting them in two minds as to what their real role entails and it is that confusion that is leading to our ineffectiveness in both areas - attack and defence. That is why I don't like 4231. Too confusing for AMs
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I would argue that the wide players are asked to do more defending in a traditional 4-4-2 than they are in most 4-2-3-1s
 
billyiddo said:
I'm not sure where the confusion is to be honest - When the full backs are attacking the CMs are covering them, whilst the wide forwards are supporting in the attacking positions - when the team is defending as a whole the attacking players are expected to get back in to position to pitch in.

Our full backs weren't attacking when Leicester scored from the k/o and so the team should have been switched on defensively as opposition had possession in the middle third of the pitch - I haven't rewatched the game so can't really comment on Chadlis involvement (or lack of) in the goal but iirc they attacked down his side - so it's not out of the ordinary to expect him, as the first line of defence, to be involved defensively...
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The problem was it was from a centre

He wasn't closing anyone down and we weren't attacking so what was he doing?!?!?

He was hanging around on the half way line waiting for someone else to do the defensive work . That's my issue
if he dropped back from their centre 10 yards he could have competed with Vardy for the ball leaving Davies to mark Marhrez but he didn't... The space in front of Davies when the ball was played is about 20 yards and that was left by Chadli
 
milo said:
If the attacking players are committed further up the field then it is the job of the central midfielders to cover the full backs.
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I have been saying this for ages and its great to see that others are now coming round to what is our biggest weakness, our CM.
 
Raziel said:
If we are willing to spend 15M on Bolasie ..
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Says who? Someone who stands to make a killing if the deal were to happen if anyone at all. It's been all paper talk all summer, but not one club has actually registered an interest with Palace.
 
parklane1 said:
I have been saying this for ages and its great to see that others are now coming round to what is our biggest weakness, our CM.
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If we are going to have a young team then we have to accept an eliment of learning on the job. I think any of our current options have the potential to develop into very good central midfielders but they are all still raw.
 
Spurs7891 said:
True. But that is largely because AVB improved greatly our defending and away records which Pochettino is struggling to do now. The turning point for AVB in that 2012-13 season was that historic 3-2 away win over ManU. Pochettino need a similiar erection inducing win to lift the team.
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I'm surprised the GG posters haven't built a statue of him for that result.
 
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