glasgowspur
Dimitar Berbatov
Yeah cos Dutch club football is awful and fully of terrible players.
We'd never buy anyone from such poor league......
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Manager Sack Watch
- Thread starter Jordinho
- Start date
Yeah cos Dutch club football is awful and fully of terrible players.
We'd never buy anyone from such poor league......
Kandi1977
Terry Dyson
At present it is awful. Ajax losing over two legs vs a very poor Rosenborg side, is testament to that. Of course there are some good players, but in general, dutch football is in crisis. Just look how bad their national team has been the last two years.
glasgowspur
Dimitar Berbatov
The club football is crap because they can't keep hold of their players, bigger clubs come along and buy them up.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Slightly misleading in that everywhere else is just one other club, Inter.
They brought in De Boer with the long term goal of replicating the production line that is the Ajax academy (not too dissimilar to Spurs approach) but are bricking the bed 3 matches in. They either should have appointed him head of the academy only or not at all if they are not willing to give it time.
I do agree the players are probably not suited to the Ajax way of playing, but they are pros and can adapt.
The same must apply to FDB.
He is trying a 343 with players where it clearly isnt working - he needs to be pragmatic and find something that works in the short term.
Build toward his preferred style in a constructive manner rather than just try and jump to it straight away.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Fair point.
StephenH
David Ginola
Dutch football 'was' the best in the world IMHO.
They have been in a downward spiral, mainly due to living in the past and having a poorly run and marketed league.
De Boer is old school and he needs a complete squad geared to the same end i.e. Ajax or Barca!
Barcelona is the Dutch way, but you need exceptional players to implement it. Spain are the nearest to the the Netherland sides of the 70's that I idolised!
De Boer is not a good manager as he has no experience outside of Holland/Ajax.
Palace (my second team) must have been on drugs when the signed him.
glasgowspur
Dimitar Berbatov
Can't argue with most of that.
I wanted FDB for us and think he could have worked here, but at palace, no chance.
If given a chance to implement his ideas and a system he could be a success. He might have got that chance here, definitely won't at palace.
Glad we got poch though.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Palace need patience. They have made a statement of how they want to be run. Now they have to accept it takes time to change a whole club.
They have a good academy, and they dont have a bad squad (though "ok" is about as far as Id go!) and nobody expects anything more than surviving to be a success for them.
They need to give FDB time now to get his feet under the table, his ideas into the team and for things to gel a bit.
That said, as I said, FDB also needs to be pragmatic. Any idiot can see that Palace squad is not going to start playing like Ajax any time soon. He needs to settle on an interim system that works and gets results, and then build from there.
Maybe they go long, work on winning second balls, and then play on the deck more in the opponent half.
Maybe they sit deep and counter more.
Whatever it is, they need a shape they are safe in defensively that has some offensive ability.
Over time things get tweaked and changed, not all at once.
They have a good academy, and they dont have a bad squad (though "ok" is about as far as Id go!) and nobody expects anything more than surviving to be a success for them.
They need to give FDB time now to get his feet under the table, his ideas into the team and for things to gel a bit.
That said, as I said, FDB also needs to be pragmatic. Any idiot can see that Palace squad is not going to start playing like Ajax any time soon. He needs to settle on an interim system that works and gets results, and then build from there.
Maybe they go long, work on winning second balls, and then play on the deck more in the opponent half.
Maybe they sit deep and counter more.
Whatever it is, they need a shape they are safe in defensively that has some offensive ability.
Over time things get tweaked and changed, not all at once.
parklane1
Vic Buckingham
The best national team that never won the World cup was the Dutch team of 74 and 78. Their youth system at club level is ( imo) the best i have seen and i was lucky enough to have seen a few here and abroad.
StephenH
David Ginola
You cant go from WBA to Ajax without years of planning probably more likely decades. Palace will not allow relegation to happen which will always undermine this plan.
I see no future for FDB at Palace unless they adopt this type of long term plan.
StephenH
David Ginola
Still the best football I have ever seen. Its when I fell in love with the game and it hooked me.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
If you mean the production line of talent all schooled in "the way" then yes, its a very long time in the making.
If you mean taking a rather agricultural team and refining them then no, its but a few seasons work for a quality manager.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
EDIT - @StephenH , sorry mate I didnt read your post fully (lunchtime, brain consumed by eating!).
My point stands in that yes, a complete and holistic change takes years in planning. And yes, short term improvement is also achievable.
I wanted to say I agree completely with you post, and that indeed Palace would possibly need to be willing to suck up a relegation in order to see that plan (assuming they have one) through to fruition.
As to whether Palace will see it through? I think a lot depends on FDB.
If it is clear genuine change is taking place, and progress will come, they might just stick with it.
And, again depending on FDB, if he is a manager worth his salt - he will get things working well enough on the pitch that he will earn time to continue "the plan".
Its an interesting time for him and Palace, he has much to prove and they are really trying to be progressive.
My point stands in that yes, a complete and holistic change takes years in planning. And yes, short term improvement is also achievable.
I wanted to say I agree completely with you post, and that indeed Palace would possibly need to be willing to suck up a relegation in order to see that plan (assuming they have one) through to fruition.
As to whether Palace will see it through? I think a lot depends on FDB.
If it is clear genuine change is taking place, and progress will come, they might just stick with it.
And, again depending on FDB, if he is a manager worth his salt - he will get things working well enough on the pitch that he will earn time to continue "the plan".
Its an interesting time for him and Palace, he has much to prove and they are really trying to be progressive.
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
You appoint a manager like De Boer then you need to back him and the project you are buying into buy appointing him.
StephenH
David Ginola
YES
But! They are thinking of sacking him after three games?
Which means they either didn't think it through OR they could not see any further than the headline 'Frank De Boer IS the new Crystal Palace Manager' OR BOTH!
The CP board continue to be an utter joke.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Thats if they really are thinking of sacking him...
StephenH
David Ginola
His arse will grass by this time next week.
He should never have been hired in the first place etc
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
I think there is a place for a smaller club to have someone like him to change their whole mindset from top to bottom, but like whats been said its a huge project that might include going down before you go forward.
The clever thing to do when you get someone like this in is to also bring in two or three of his players, his trusted inside men, players who will relay his message in the changing room but also lead by example which also helps if they are class.
glasgowspur
Dimitar Berbatov
He really should be having a word with his agent or a long hard look at himself.
That's two jobs he shouldn't have went neat imo
The Hood
Mbulelo Mabizela
That's not how modern football works. There is a reason why the average tenure of a manager is little over a year. By today's standards Poch is a modern day Alex Ferguson or Arsenal Wenger.