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Levy - End Of Season Letter

BrainOfLevy said:
There isn't a difference. I'm not classifying them separately, I'm saying that if we bring in some big game foreigner and he gets a shaky period of results, he's let go and another experiment fails. Or we actually back that guy (as long as he works in terms of the philosophy of what Levy and Baldini want in terms of philosophy, tactics, types of players needed, willingness to use the youth) and stick with him.
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How far he's taken us so far.

Just how tough it is to break into that top 4 considering the financial position of those clubs, and thus an acceptance that just because he hasn't gotten us there yet isn't a massive failure on his part that indicates incompetence.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
I get the feeling he too quickly gets nervous when it isn't going well.
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You've convinced yourself of this because you believed in AVB and wanted him to get more time.
Others felt AVB wasn't getting anywhere, his system was fundamentally flawed and he should be ousted.
At the end of the day it wasn't just a footballing decision; AVB had destroyed relationships and gone into his shell and divided the backroom and playing staff, so for those reasons alone he had to go even if the football was looking good on the pitch.

Similarly Redknapp had to go for non-football reasons, he was turning into a prize ar5ehole in the media.
Ditto Sherwod.

Some might say he sticks with things too long when they clearly aren't going to work... you feel he gets rid too soon... that is all perception. There have always been BIG business reasons (not just football reasons to get rid).

PS - people talk about big teams like United sticking with a manager for 20 years, then they switch to a PROVEN PREMIERSHIP manager in Moyes... and get rid in less than one season. Go figure.
 
Bullet said:
You've convinced yourself of this because you believed in AVB and wanted him to get more time.
Others felt AVB wasn't getting anywhere, his system was fundamentally flawed and he should be ousted.
At the end of the day it wasn't just a footballing decision; AVB had destroyed relationships and gone into his shell and divided the backroom and playing staff, so for those reasons alone he had to go even if the football was looking good on the pitch.

Similarly Redknapp had to go for non-football reasons, he was turning into a prize ar5ehole in the media.
Ditto Sherwod.

Some might say he sticks with things too long when they clearly aren't going to work... you feel he gets rid too soon... that is all perception. There have always been BIG business reasons (not just football reasons to get rid).

PS - people talk about big teams like United sticking with a manager for 20 years, then they switch to a PROVEN PREMIERSHIP manager in Moyes... and get rid in less than one season. Go figure.
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Interesting theory.

BoL: Which managers other than AVB do you think Levy fired too soon?
 
billyiddo said:
Well for me i look at the fact we've recently been punching above our weight of 6th by getting 4th twice and 5th several times - At least two of those 5th place seasons we have been a point away from 4th and in 11/12 i believe we had a side/squad capable of a genuine title fight - so IMV Levy has already shown that he (along with
the managers/DoFs/head coaches he employs) can provide us with a squad capable of top 4 / CL qualification - what makes you think that we will not be able to repeat that?
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Because in the last few years Liverpool have seriously underperfomed - giving us one notch up on where we should be - but have now gotten their act together. And in our first 4th placed season Emirates Marketing Project weren't the team they are now. In the second 4th placed season, Chelsea seriously underperformed and put us up another notch.

Is he capable of having us there when other teams are also pushing us hard? And if so, why?
 
Santini, maybe not. But he was a manager of good pedigree. And let's be honest, if Levy had gone straight for Jol he would have slaughtered by our fickle, unrealistic, fans

Ramos was the hottest property in European football at the time. And one many fans wanted

Pre Chelsea AVB was also hot property. After Chelsea he was a risk - but Chelsea is such a mourinho club that it's difficult for anyone else to exist their.

The outcomes were not great, but all of the appointments come with a large degree of merit. Especially when you remember we awe a mid sized club in the grand scheme of things.
 
Bullet said:
You've convinced yourself of this because you believed in AVB and wanted him to get more time.
Others felt AVB wasn't getting anywhere, his system was fundamentally flawed and he should be ousted.
At the end of the day it wasn't just a footballing decision; AVB had destroyed relationships and gone into his shell and divided the backroom and playing staff, so for those reasons alone he had to go even if the football was looking good on the pitch.

Similarly Redknapp had to go for non-football reasons, he was turning into a prize ar5ehole in the media.
Ditto Sherwod.

Some might say he sticks with things too long when they clearly aren't going to work... you feel he gets rid too soon... that is all perception. There have always been BIG business reasons (not just football reasons to get rid).

PS - people talk about big teams like United sticking with a manager for 20 years, then they switch to a PROVEN PREMIERSHIP manager in Moyes... and get rid in less than one season. Go figure.
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Experienced yes, but proven? So how many trophies did he win?
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Because in the last few years Liverpool have seriously underperfomed - giving us one notch up on where we should be - but have now gotten their act together. And in our first 4th placed season Emirates Marketing Project weren't the team they are now. In the second 4th placed season, Chelsea seriously underperformed and put us up another notch.

Is he capable of having us there when other teams are also pushing us hard? And if so, why?
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That's fair enough BoL - the jury will be out on that as as far as im aware it hasn't been a regular occurance that everyone above is hitting their 'true' form - what i will say is that in the Lasanga-gate season and in 11/12 we really should have been at least above Arsenal those years and keeping in mind the difference in finincial clout of us and those above im not sure we can truly expect much more? (To the point we think we're held back by the chairman)
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Because in the last few years Liverpool have seriously underperfomed - giving us one notch up on where we should be - but have now gotten their act together. And in our first 4th placed season Emirates Marketing Project weren't the team they are now. In the second 4th placed season, Chelsea seriously underperformed and put us up another notch.

Is he capable of having us there when other teams are also pushing us hard? And if so, why?
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How's that Levy's fault? Even if all the clubs with bigger budgets and wages get their act together and the highest we can finish is 5th or 6th every season, why's that down to Levy? What do you want? Do you want us to sell out to an Arab billionaire, or do you want to be run by a group of north London jewish businessmen in the THFC tradition?

I think you're confused by what you want and expect here.
 
NWND said:
How's that Levy's fault? Even if all the clubs with bigger budgets and wages get their act together and the highest we can finish is 5th or 6th every season, why's that down to Levy? What do you want? Do you want us to sell out to an Arab billionaire, or do you want to be run by a group of north London jewish businessmen in the THFC tradition?

I think you're confused by what you want and expect here.
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It's not Levy's fault, I'm merely making the point that everyone is saying Levy has got us punching about our weight despite the fact that Liverpool have had an awful 4 years, one season Emirates Marketing Project weren't the team they are now and in the other season Chelsea put us up another notch by default.

Levy's a great businessman, I'm just questioning that he's done anything more than average for us on the football side, where as people are saying he's been excellent. I'm saying that all things considered, he's been competent.
 
Levy has us more or less where we should be. Sometimes we have been a bit higher, partially helped by the state of others, sometimes a bit below. This is a huge improvement on the 90s.

To break the top four we need more revenue and/or a manager who can boost our performance substantially above our financial station. The search for the latter explains the manager turnover. We could well have had Moyes-like stability with say Jol, whose refusal to talk about the top four was part of the problem. It is the search for greater revenue where I think Levy will be judged when we look back on this period. If he delivers the stadium it could be the boost we need, especially in a FFP era.
 
As with most things connected with the club, my view of Levy's tenure is that it is something of a curate's egg. Parts of it are indeed excellent, but there are some things I don't think I'll ever be able to forgive or forget (the way the Jol fiasco was handled; the Stratford thing), and I also feel there have been times when we were in a position of acute advantage over underperforming rivals and where he needed to take more of a risk to drive that advantage home, but failed to do so. He uses the word ambition a lot, and I feel he has shown a disappointing lack of it at crucial times, personally.
 
jts1882 said:
Levy has us more or less where we should be. Sometimes we have been a bit higher, partially helped by the state of others, sometimes a bit below. This is a huge improvement on the 90s.

To break the top four we need more revenue and/or a manager who can boost our performance substantially above our financial station. The search for the latter explains the manager turnover. We could well have had Moyes-like stability with say Jol, whose refusal to talk about the top four was part of the problem. It is the search for greater revenue where I think Levy will be judged when we look back on this period. If he delivers the stadium it could be the boost we need, especially in a FFP era.
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There is a wages to position chart (for last 7 or 10 years), I think we only finished below our spend once ... we are consistently above.

To break top 4 we need a year where things go right for us, and off for some of our peers, to challenge we need stupid money, fans just need to understand that.
 
At least he understands that he's not a football man, which is why he prefers to have a director of football.
 
What the hell does that even mean, a "football man"? Its a cliche nonsense trotted out by ex-players to chairmen all the time. Levy was not a player himself, but he was a Spurs season ticket holder before he became chairman and has demonstrated a wide network of contacts in the game since. Arnesen, Santini, Baldini, the Van Der Vaart signing...this is not some accountant who only looks at the numbers.
 
SUIYHA said:
What the hell does that even mean, a "football man"? Its a cliche nonsense trotted out by ex-players to chairmen all the time. Levy was not a player himself, but he was a Spurs season ticket holder before he became chairman and has demonstrated a wide network of contacts in the game since. Arnesen, Santini, Baldini, the Van Der Vaart signing...this is not some accountant who only looks at the numbers.
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Agreed. And seeing as football is a business as well as a game, I'd say Levy is very much a 'football man'. He watches most games, has run multiple clubs, and has contacts throughout world football. But he's not a football man?
 
SUIYHA said:
What the hell does that even mean, a "football man"? Its a cliche nonsense trotted out by ex-players to chairmen all the time. Levy was not a player himself, but he was a Spurs season ticket holder before he became chairman and has demonstrated a wide network of contacts in the game since. Arnesen, Santini, Baldini, the Van Der Vaart signing...this is not some accountant who only looks at the numbers.
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I would trust someone with knowledge of business far more than an ex-player when it comes to running a club. Levy doesn't sign anyone without taking advice from people that "knows football" anyway.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
It's not Levy's fault, I'm merely making the point that everyone is saying Levy has got us punching about our weight despite the fact that Liverpool have had an awful 4 years, one season Emirates Marketing Project weren't the team they are now and in the other season Chelsea put us up another notch by default.

Levy's a great businessman, I'm just questioning that he's done anything more than average for us on the football side, where as people are saying he's been excellent. I'm saying that all things considered, he's been competent.
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I'd suggest comparing our league finishes under the last few years under Sugar to our last ten years under Levy and then we can discuss what he has done on the football side.

The gap between us and the clubs above us is financial. They finish above us because their transfer and wage budgets dwarf ours.
 
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