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Let's talk about our history of having 'weak mentalities' and 'bottling it'

glorygloryeze

glorygloryeze

Ian Walker
There were positives to take from yesterdays horrible result for sure.

But I'd like to get down to gthe nitt-gritty of what really boithered me yesterday more than the actual result: the way we crumbled just because we went diown to 10 men. Ok, we can say losing Adebayor was crucial as he was the one forward with the ability, strength and speed to hold the ball up and relieve pressure (e.g. perhaps Defoe getting sent off wouldn't have been as Grave), but igf you looked at many of the players they looked beaten as soon as the red came out.

We are not the first team to go down to 10 men and lose, but why by so many?

Many, many examples of this for us in PL history, which I can't be bothered to list.

However, to me it comes down more to having a brittle mentality that switches to 'can't be bothered with this s***' when something slightly adverse happens, like going down to ten men, a dodgy ref decision etc. The great sides tend to find the will, strength something to overcome the adversity; Man utd, Chelsea and pre-Mourinho Arsenal being prime PL examples.
In Spurs's case it seems the term 'southern softy' was almost created based on us. When did we get so jelly-bellied? Was it the 60s (after all we haven't won a league title since 61)? Was it the early 80s and the swaashbuckling Cup-winning Ricky Villa era?

To be honest I am particularly rested in the views of the older supporters who may be able to chart a point at which our club became so much more used to bottling it than finding strength to overcome adverse situations 8 times of out 10.

Examples of bottling it? I list the following as prime:

1986-87: With possibly the best team I have seen, we lost to a very atritional-Arsenal side in the league cup semi and then lost to Coventry in the FA Cup final when we were overwhelmingly favourites, I think Clive Allen scored for us within 40 seconds and we STILL lost after extra time.
How that side didn't wion a trophy i'll never know (well i do, they bottled it)

1993 FA Cup semi final loss to Arsenal and following league games: We had the flair not as much as in previous sides, but Arsenal had even less flair. Again couldn't put away our chances. The flops in the league that followed (e.g. 3-0 loss away to Middlesbrough who were eventually relegated said it all)

1995 Fa Cup semi-final vs Everton: we didn't show up

1999 Fa cup semi-final vs Newcvastle: lost after extra time having had large portions of possession and missed many sitters (step forward Chris Armstring and Alan Nielson); HOWEVER i must also praise the team for this was the season we won the League cup in the final minute after playing a large part of the second half with 10 men after Lilly Savage got Justin Edinburgh sent off against Leicester City. But then we effectuvcely didn't show up in the league games afterwards. Not sure how significant that it was the Goonersaurus Graham who masterminded our cup win in adversity....

2002: League cup final vs Blackburn: we definately bottled that one!

2005: All we had to do was not away in our penultimate game at Middlesbrough and we could effectively have guarenteed UEFA cup football the next season; of course we lost 1-0 and limply

2006: Lasagnagate...but should we have let it get to that point; remember when we had to just hold out for 5 more minutes at Highbury???!!! Sigh...

2007: Oooh, what shall I select?? League cup semi vs Arsenal? FA Cup quarter final vs Chelsea when we were 3-1 up and pummelling them??? Or perhaps the Sevilla Uefa Cup tie??

2008: Aahhh when bottling the big games seemed no more (just instead bottled the more mundane league games after the league cup win...)

2009: Penalty shoot-out loss agaisnt Manure reserves, was Corluka the only player to score his penalty??

2010: Our great surge for 4th spot papered over the fact that we bottled it BIG TIME against Portsmouth..ah well, the 4th place that seaon just about made up for it...just...

2011: our run from the game we flopped against Blackpool after winning in Milan said everything about the Spurs tradition of bottling it

2012: I can't even be bothered...


So when did our illustriius history of continually bottling it begun? And how does that mentality start within a club? Is it at board level or the coaching set-up?How can such regular brittle mentalities within a club get rectified?
At least we're not alone: i'd say Arsenal are now at the forefront in most peoples minds when thinking of teams that regularly 'bottle it' despite yesterday's game. Theire recent list would be too long to mention...

So, thoughts?
 
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Re: Let's talk about our history of having 'waek mentalities' and 'bottling it'

Title is spelled wrong
 
Re: Let's talk about our history of having 'waek mentalities' and 'bottling it'

I think most teams could list plenty of examples of when they have 'bottled it'. Basically teams will lose. Even great teams and occasionally they will lose from seemingly unassailable positions: that's the beauty of football. The better players you have the less often it will happen to you. Most teams don't even get to big games and finals to be able to 'bottle it'. We didnt 'bottle it' on Saturday it was just one of those days where nothing goes for you. I think Arsenal scored 5 from about 9 attempts all game. Oh well...

You forgot a world-class Chelsea team getting destroyed 5-1 in the semi on the way to that Blackburn league cup final, did they 'bottle it'? No they just had one of those days too...
 
Re: Let's talk about our history of having 'waek mentalities' and 'bottling it'

galeforce said:
yep, e instead of an n
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LOL, I've just got that!!:ross:

However, 3 times I've tried to edit the thread title it doesnpt work...any clue?

Oh yeah, and any thoughts on the ACTUAL topic, lol?
 
Re: Let's talk about our history of having 'waek mentalities' and 'bottling it'

NWND said:
I think most teams could list plenty of examples of when they have 'bottled it'. Basically teams will lose. Even great teams and occasionally they will lose from seemingly unassailable positions: that's the beauty of football. The better players you have the less often it will happen to you. Most teams don't even get to big games and finals to be able to 'bottle it'. We didnt 'bottle it' on Saturday it was just one of those days where nothing goes for you. I think Arsenal scored 5 from about 9 attempts all game. Oh well...

You forgot a world-class Chelsea team getting destroyed 5-1 in the semi on the way to that Blackburn league cup final, did they 'bottle it'? No they just had one of those days too...
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Not sure that Chelski side were world-class but it was a great result to beat them after so many years of not doing so, so I take your point. But you see that result is almost forgotten because it wasn't followed up with a performance with even half the application as we lost meakly to a Blackburn side that finished in the bottom half. They were fully up for it - we weren't. Contrast that with the 5-1 win against the scum and this was followed up with a cup final win and an actual trophy beaten a Chelski side who were actually world class.
 
Re: Let's talk about our history of having 'waek mentalities' and 'bottling it'

fudge it I'm depressed as well, so I'll add:

84/85 when we were in contention for the League, then bottled it. My first game at the Lane in March 85 - 0-2 to Villa.

3-4 City in the Cup.

Don't care though! Booked in for Swansea on 16th Dec, QPR away (hopefully) and Utd at home in January.

COYS!
 
Re: Let's talk about our history of having 'waek mentalities' and 'bottling it'

It's a self fulfilling proficy. The fans get nervy in the stands and it transfers to the players, resulting in a loss and the fans getting nervy next time.
 
Re: Let's talk about our history of having 'waek mentalities' and 'bottling it'

Richie said:
It's a self fulfilling proficy. The fans get nervy in the stands and it transfers to the players, resulting in a loss and the fans getting nervy next time.
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Hmmm...chicken and egg. But when did the chicken and egg cycle begin..?
 
Re: Let's talk about our history of having 'waek mentalities' and 'bottling it'

nelto said:
fudge it I'm depressed as well, so I'll add:

84/85 when we were in contention for the League, then bottled it. My first game at the Lane in March 85 - 0-2 to Villa.

3-4 City in the Cup.

Don't care though! Booked in for Swansea on 16th Dec, QPR away (hopefully) and Utd at home in January.

COYS!
Click to expand...

Bloody hell - there's so many that I even forgot about that one...
 
Re: Let's talk about our history of having 'waek mentalities' and 'bottling it'

Historically we have always gone out to play attractive football, to attack and entertain. Less emphasis on defence than most (if not all!). Majority of clubs play to more rigid systems - everyone behind the ball, that kind of stuff.

Maybe also it's the type of player we always go for, ones who know they can turn it on but cannot always be arsed when the chips are down. We are therefore that much easier to pick off.

Huge generalisations of course, but maybe some strands of truth in there?
 
Also I have this theory other clubs know that we can be a soft touch once things start to go against us. Undoubtedly true where United are concerned, we must have the worst record against them of any of the top teams.

Also true of Arsenal most seasons. They always raise their game several notches against us, no question. They simply cannot contemplate the thought we might finish above them, that would be absolutely the last straw for their fans.
 
Re: Let's talk about our history of having 'waek mentalities' and 'bottling it'

Constant turnover of managers and players doesn't help either. Erodes commitment and team spirit. Wonder where we sit statistically compared to others in this regard?
 
Spur of the moment said:
Also I have this theory other clubs know that we can be a soft touch once things start to go against us. Undoubtedly true where United are concerned, we must have the worst record against them of any of the top teams.

Also true of Arsenal most seasons. They always raise their game several notches against us, no question. They simply cannot contemplate the thought we might finish above them, that would be absolutely the last straw for their fans.
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Thanks for your thoughts. It's so true about Arsenal fans: I remember how truly happy they were when Defoe missed that late chance against City and then we conceded that late late Balotelli penalty. They really couldn't stand the thought of them middling to finish 4th whilst we were in a title race, even if we didn't actally win the league.

The 5-2 rebuttal to the mind the gap jokes and then finishing 3rd was like a trophy to them.
But since when did finishing below us become such a 'dirty' thing for them? Surely there was a time when we constantly finished above them? Or was there??8-[

It also is mind-boggling that we didn't become more 'progmatic' earlier with our transfer buys; many clubs have and have still maintained a level of 'being entertaining' e.g. Man Utd, Liverpool in their heyday (though to me far more boring than Man Utd..), even Rioch and Wenger's Arsenal:-#
 
Re: Let's talk about our history of having 'waek mentalities' and 'bottling it'

Spur of the moment said:
Historically we have always gone out to play attractive football, to attack and entertain. Less emphasis on defence than most (if not all!). Majority of clubs play to more rigid systems - everyone behind the ball, that kind of stuff.

Maybe also it's the type of player we always go for, ones who know they can turn it on but cannot always be arsed when the chips are down. We are therefore that much easier to pick off.

Huge generalisations of course, but maybe some strands of truth in there?
Click to expand...

Could this 'only buying of entertainers' have been seen as a financial thing? i.e. only flashy skillful players gets bums oin seats?

Perhaps Cup wins and finals back in the day compared to winning leagues were the equivalent of these days 4th spot trumping a cup final win. Perhaps a quicker route to rishes than the hard long slog of a league campiagn that didn't guarentee success compared to 7/8 good cup games..:-k
 
Because we haven't had a particularly great manager since Burkinshaw.

I hope AVB will turn this around, as well as all the other stuff that needs addressing.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Because we haven't had a particularly great manager since Burkinshaw.

I hope AVB will turn this around, as well as all the other stuff that needs addressing.
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OK. What was the disagreement Burkinshaw had with the board at the time? I believe he was the one that said the infamous line: 'There used to be a football club there'. What was he referring to? How was it different to other clubs, especially our 'big club' rivals?
 
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