Last ten minutes

[Gutter Boy]

My take:

- Long-term neglect of fitness (basically the last decade, except Ramos' short tenure), slowly being remidied

- Our new high pressing game requires greater levels of fitness than previously required

- We're simply running out of steam and will keep doing so until our collective fitness reaches the level required by Andre's system

 

[indianspur]

Whilst I agree that he doesnt have the options on the bench I would argue two counts. a) Why change things in the first place? b) Why not replace like for like for like if the original tactics are working well and he doesnt need to either attack or to defend it out?

Today instead of Vert he could have put on either another midfielder on OR put Vert on but for another defender. If it aint broke dont fix it mentality. I think AVB has a certain way of closing games out but thats the problem closing games out - you can do it positively and actually counter it by attacking or invite pressure by sitting back.

I also do think it is a fitness issue - we press high up and a fair bit and that, no matter what, will affect players - hence the subs being important but not to sit back but to attack. I do think AVB wants us to absolutely hammer teams for an hour and get to an unassailable lead and then when we are tired we just pass it around and waste the last half hour.

if thats his plan he wont last long because it wont work long term

 

[DHSF]

if thats his plan he wont last long because it wont work long term

I dont know. We start quickly off the traps - so im just assuming and seeing a trend. In a lot of games especially away from home - we tend to start quickly very quickly.

 

[milo]

- Long-term neglect of fitness (basically the last decade, except Ramos' short tenure), slowly being remidied

I think that is a pretty laughable statement. The new players are not showing any better stamina than the longer serving players.

 

[indianspur]

Chelsea under AVB used to concede late goals iirc

 

[touching_cloth]

Good evening all. I've been lurking tonight and, for my own interest, I went through this and last season's results to see how many goals were conceded/scored from the 80th min onwards and how many points these goals directly cost/gained us. I included all competitive games so tonight's cup game, for example, 'cost' us 3 points.

2012-13 so far...
For 1goal, Gain 0pts. Against 7goals, Cost 8pts

2011-12
For 11, Gain 4pts (WBA away, Stoke home) Against 9goals, Cost 5pts

I'm not aiming to bring anyone down or get down on the manager, just thought you may be interested in what I found (maybe!). Onwards and upwards!

By the way, if anyone as nerdy as me fancies doing more seasons use this link and click the reports... http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/tottenham-hotspur/results/2010-2011/ Change the years in the link for different seasons. I'm going to bed!

 

[Jordinho]

I do remember one season we kept going behind and coming back to win. Was 09/10 or 10/11?

 

[diego_maradona]

I just want to win 1-0

 

[Golfball]

My take:

- Long-term neglect of fitness (basically the last decade, except Ramos' short tenure), slowly being remidied

- Our new high pressing game requires greater levels of fitness than previously required

- We're simply running out of steam and will keep doing so until our collective fitness reaches the level required by Andre's system

Fitness under Ramos was appalling, even after a year in charge. Under Harry, we never had a problem with late goals.

Fitness under AVB seems a possible issue. You may want to blame it on the system, its probably not, but if it is then why would you play a system the team cant play yet? Its perfectly simple to play a different system and work on fitness in the background.

Its the typical gutter boy stereotyping, rather than looking at what is actually happening. Fitness under Ramos was an issue, fitness under AVB seems to be an issue - yet according to gutterboy the opposite is true because his perception of those managers is different to the reality.

Funnily enough, the only player who has been here (almost) throughout the last decade - Defoe - is the best player at pressing for the whole 90 minutes.

 

[Pirate55]

Good evening all. I've been lurking tonight and, for my own interest, I went through this and last season's results to see how many goals were conceded/scored from the 80th min onwards and how many points these goals directly cost/gained us. I included all competitive games so tonight's cup game, for example, 'cost' us 3 points.

2012-13 so far...
For 1goal, Gain 0pts. Against 7goals, Cost 8pts

2011-12
For 11, Gain 4pts (WBA away, Stoke home) Against 9goals, Cost 5pts

I'm not aiming to bring anyone down or get down on the manager, just thought you may be interested in what I found (maybe!). Onwards and upwards!

By the way, if anyone as nerdy as me fancies doing more seasons use this link and click the reports... http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/tottenham-hotspur/results/2010-2011/ Change the years in the link for different seasons. I'm going to bed!

So.... for the whole of last season this period "only" cost us 5 points (or a net -1 point)

This season, SO FAR, it has cost us Saudi Sportswashing Machine (1), WBA (2), Reading (0), Chelsea (0), Norwich (2), Pana (2), Norwich (3) - ie a total of 10 points

On the plus side, 0. So a negative 10 points.

I have just watched MOTD and in the last minute of extra time I noticed Chelsea and Arse players streaming forward at full pace. At 90 minutes so were Swansea players. Why cant we do this. It is a combination of fitness, desire and tactics. We must surely change this soon.

Today, at 1-0 Lennon and Defoe would have made ideal subs and could have exploited the space when Norwich pushed forward. Very poor tactical subs by AVB - AGAIN

To keep repeating the same mistake is exasperating.

 

[Rorschach]

For me it is not fitness it is application, or lack of it, and mental fragility.

 

[onlyme]

You are always going to struggle to find a competitive bench with 5/6 good players out. Meaning the opposition manager can have a greater effect upon the game in the latter stages.

VG point

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

My take:

- Long-term neglect of fitness (basically the last decade, except Ramos' short tenure), slowly being remidied

- Our new high pressing game requires greater levels of fitness than previously required

- We're simply running out of steam and will keep doing so until our collective fitness reaches the level required by Andre's system

Long term fitness neglect? Sorry, that is nonsense. They've had a pre-season and we are 3 months into the new season. How long do you think it takes for a player to get the required level of fitness? As long as they have the base fitness (and being professional athletes the majority of them do even if they don't train for 3 months) it's a matter of weeks to get fit, not years.

High pressing game? We aren't playing one.

 

[thfcsteff]

It's something that happen to us towards the end of games when we're leading. We let the other side dominate us. I'd say it's partially down to us not being able to maintain possession for longer periods and we're not solid enough defensively to rely counter attacking either.

I'd say we're still learning to live life without Luka Modric...

 

[thfcsteff]

Fitness under Ramos was appalling, even after a year in charge. Under Harry, we never had a problem with late goals.

Fitness under AVB seems a possible issue. You may want to blame it on the system, its probably not, but if it is then why would you play a system the team cant play yet? Its perfectly simple to play a different system and work on fitness in the background.

Its the typical gutter boy stereotyping, rather than looking at what is actually happening. Fitness under Ramos was an issue, fitness under AVB seems to be an issue - yet according to gutterboy the opposite is true because his perception of those managers is different to the reality.

Funnily enough, the only player who has been here (almost) throughout the last decade - Defoe - is the best player at pressing for the whole 90 minutes.

Last season...

Emirates Marketing Project home - dzeko, 90
man utd away - anderson, 76 & rooney, 87
Emirates Marketing Project away - ballotelli, 90
wigan home - mc arthur, 80
swansea away - sinclair, 84
chelski SF - ramires 77, Lampard 81, Malouda 90
Saudi Sportswashing Machine away - ameobi, 86
stoke home - jerome, 75


Don't pretend late concessions never happened under other managers, least of all Harry. Because they did. BTW, your comments on Gutter boy...pot/kettle. Hilarious.

Your points lack any context whatsoever...think carefully about tonight and the subs made. And consider the long-term injured versus the pool of players left to choose from versus giving a couple who have played pretty much every minute (such as Defoe) a rest.

Younes Kaboul - injured
BAE - injured
Dembele - injured
Adebayor - mental fracture
Scott Parker - injured

I won't even mention the player he lost in the summer who was basically the lynchpin of Tottenham Hotspur these past three seasons.

Finally, my take on these late concessions is NOTHING to do with the overall physical fitness of the side (I do continue to believe that the Hudd is not fit enough to play the active role I wish he could), and frankly, I think it's a joke that anyone does. We continued to attack Norwich last night after going behind, I'm sure you noticed. I think the problem is FOCUS/CONCENTRATION and MAINTAINING FOCUS/CONCENTRATION for 90 mins. This is a much younger squad than the last few seasons and it lacks the experience to remain focussed against sides such as Norwich. The reason we lost last night, IMHO was two-fold. AVB had no-one else to bring on for Carroll who could do what Carroll was doing, thus he thrust Verts in to plug the gap (a mistake). And because we switched off. To my eyes, we stopped doing the things we'd been doing with the same level of diligence because this wasn't Old Trafford and Norwich weren't Man Utd. THAT'S where we need to sharpen up and get our brick together IMO...

 

[ArcspacE]

Excellent post Steff, karma point for you

 

[braineclipse]

In my opinion it's way too early to say that we have a problem in the last ten minutes. A lot of coincidences and in some of these games it's been just as much about what happens earlier in the game.

A one goal lead going into the last 10 minutes is never going to be safe against anyone decent and certainly not against PL opposition. There is room for us to improve for sure, but I also think that we've just been a bit unfortunate in that respect so far this season. Like against Norwich where there's a deflected goal from a corner and a goal from a free kick that in my opinion shouldn't have been given.

 

[thfcsteff]

In my opinion it's way too early to say that we have a problem in the last ten minutes. A lot of coincidences and in some of these games it's been just as much about what happens earlier in the game.

A one goal lead going into the last 10 minutes is never going to be safe against anyone decent and certainly not against PL opposition. There is room for us to improve for sure, but I also think that we've just been a bit unfortunate in that respect so far this season. Like against Norwich where there's a deflected goal from a corner and a goal from a free kick that in my opinion shouldn't have been given.

=D>

 

[jts1882]

In my opinion it's way too early to say that we have a problem in the last ten minutes.

The pattern of conceding late goals is looking quite consistent. While I'll agree a one goal lead is never safe, you'd also expect us to add to it by catching the team on the counterattack just as often. There is also the pattern of substitutions before the concession, with us making a defensive change. Now it could be that its all coincidence and that the concession of late goals is just bad luck, despite the changes, or it could be that the change is disrupting our team and making us more vulnerable.

From the Guardian:

It was then, however, that manager André Villas-Boas, as he often does, made an essentially defensive change, sending on Jan Vertonghen for Tom Carroll, and not for the first time this season, it backfired spectacularly. While the Belgian defender could hardly be blamed for inadvertently deflecting Alex Tettey's shot into his own goal, the teams' momentum had already begun to change.

Suddenly it was all Norwich ...

 

[Spursalot]

In my opinion it's way too early to say that we have a problem in the last ten minutes.

The pattern of conceding late goals is looking quite consistent. While I'll agree a one goal lead is never safe, you'd also expect us to add to it by catching the team on the counterattack just as often. There is also the pattern of substitutions before the concession, with us making a defensive change. Now it could be that its all coincidence and that the concession of late goals is just bad luck, despite the changes, or it could be that the change is disrupting our team and making us more vulnerable.

From the Guardian:

If he deemed Carroll as tiring, who would you rather he sent on?

In all seriousness?