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James Maddison

Yiddo said:
So GB who i assume is a fully grown adult? Has a grudge against someone who made a comment about Spurs when he was 15/16? Over 10 years ago? Thats incredible.
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I don't know what that's about?

If I have any grudge against him, its that Alli started going off the rails when he fell into his company, instead of the previous good influences of Dier and co.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I don't know what that's about?

If I have any grudge against him, its that Alli started going off the rails when he fell into his company, instead of the previous good influences of Dier and co.
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So what about Grealish? He was seen enjoying drinks with both Alli and Maddison. It’s funny how Grealish and Maddison are at the top of their game and Alli isn’t. He was known as a lazy trainer at MK dons, he is the reason his career is over, nobody else is.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I don't know what that's about?

If I have any grudge against him, its that Alli started going off the rails when he fell into his company, instead of the previous good influences of Dier and co.
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Unfortunately that might say more about Alli than Maddison. As I don't know either player personally I can only rely on the comments of those who do know them. And there are probably more negative comments about Dele by his former managers than are about Maddison by his.

Although I still think Dele can resurrect his career if he has the inclination - one of his problems (besides any behaviour issues that there may or may not be) may be that he is one of those players who needs a competitive game to get the best performance out of them, so managers who start players based on training performance may find it difficult to justify him starting. I also think it's not obvious what his best position is. Is he an off-the-main-striker player, in which case you need a system that accommodates him. Anyway, that's off topic, but I hope he gets his career back on track.
 
Stone me, I replied to a message earlier but had not read back on here, was an eventful few hours on the Maddison debate

Buckle up @Gutter Boy if the press is to be believed (if).....Its looking like destination Spurs for Maddison
 
Yiddo said:
So what about Grealish? He was seen enjoying drinks with both Alli and Maddison. It’s funny how Grealish and Maddison are at the top of their game and Alli isn’t. He was known as a lazy trainer at MK dons, he is the reason his career is over, nobody else is.
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And Grealish has a documented history of going on benders
 
Grays_1890 said:
Its major life issues and stuff with his family which are the issue, not Maddison mate
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He was lucky to have the likes of Dier and Redknapp around to help him.
Maddison and Grealish are more "lads" than Dier. More Wetherspoons and Nandos than bottle of wine and a nice meal.
Aka, raised in average English town Vs raised in Portugal.
That probably opened the door for Dele's demons to come back out. He needed a advocate and a counsellor.

But that's not a slight on Maddison. I don't see him a mentor, but definitely not a bad egg either. Just a standard personality footballer.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Fapatalk
 
Sadly it’s hard to imagine what being a multimillionaire in your early 20s would be like. But there is no doubt it must take away some of your focus!
 
SpurMeUp said:
Sadly it’s hard to imagine what being a multimillionaire in your early 20s would be like. But there is no doubt it must take away some of your focus!
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Yeh and the major flaw in football for all the money and assumed structure is the real lack of mental health care experts at clubs, for me I think for all the money in the game it should be stipulated as a rule that each club should employ a full time person. There is this unhealthy assumption in football born in part with the money earned which is seen as a cure all which is not helped with language around it with terms like "lazy" and the conflation from that where we wrongly assume someone is a bad egg. In Alli case his personal life conspired against him and yeh he never helped himself at times and a combination of the two have ended up with where he is now, which is basically the ability to hide based on the money he has to do so, but in fairness he never came with any baggage or a string of off the field issues, there is much more negativity said about him than should in my opinion especially by those in the game who should know better and the nature of fans means that many, including Spurs fans actually emphasis his downfall more than actually speaking about the fine footballer he is and was for us. Brilliant footballer in a brilliant time for me

Thats my 2 pence worth haha
 
monkeybarry said:
He was lucky to have the likes of Dier and Redknapp around to help him.
Maddison and Grealish are more "lads" than Dier. More Wetherspoons and Nandos than bottle of wine and a nice meal.
Aka, raised in average English town Vs raised in Portugal.
That probably opened the door for Dele's demons to come back out. He needed a advocate and a counsellor.

But that's not a slight on Maddison. I don't see him a mentor, but definitely not a bad egg either. Just a standard personality footballer.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Fapatalk
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Redknapp?
 
Grays_1890 said:
Yeh and the major flaw in football for all the money and assumed structure is the real lack of mental health care experts at clubs, for me I think for all the money in the game it should be stipulated as a rule that each club should employ a full time person. There is this unhealthy assumption in football born in part with the money earned which is seen as a cure all which is not helped with language around it with terms like "lazy" and the conflation from that where we wrongly assume someone is a bad egg. In Alli case his personal life conspired against him and yeh he never helped himself at times and a combination of the two have ended up with where he is now, which is basically the ability to hide based on the money he has to do so, but in fairness he never came with any baggage or a string of off the field issues, there is much more negativity said about him than should in my opinion especially by those in the game who should know better and the nature of fans means that many, including Spurs fans actually emphasis his downfall more than actually speaking about the fine footballer he is and was for us. Brilliant footballer in a brilliant time for me

Thats my 2 pence worth haha
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To take it slightly off topic / continue the tangent I do feel that a bit much is made of a lack of mental health support at top level football clubs, maybe I'm being a little callous here but if you get paid an inordinate amount of money by a football club you can afford the best in terms of therapy / psychiatric support, to expect it to just be part of the package from the club seems a bit odd.

If a player only approaches the mental side of things because it's part of the deal and a box to tick at work like some obligatory team building exercise or flimflam e-learning course that's a worry, it's been obvious for a while that to get the best out of someone in any sporting context it's a balance of physical / mental prowess which takes work on both sides...

Hope that doesn't come across as me saying there shouldn't be support from the clubs, there absolutely should be but also in all levels of employment but that's pie in sky thinking apparently.

As for Dele, whatever happened / is happening seems sad. Don't think it's due to a lack of effort or James Maddison (fudging lol). Since it went downhill it always seemed like a return to MK Dons might be a good shout if it comes to it, go back to somewhere that might feel like home rather than Turkey or wherever. It would be a humbling return but a new line in the sand to start again.
 
spurspinter1 said:
To take it slightly off topic / continue the tangent I do feel that a bit much is made of a lack of mental health support at top level football clubs, maybe I'm being a little callous here but if you get paid an inordinate amount of money by a football club you can afford the best in terms of therapy / psychiatric support, to expect it to just be part of the package from the club seems a bit odd.

If a player only approaches the mental side of things because it's part of the deal and a box to tick at work like some obligatory team building exercise or flimflam e-learning course that's a worry, it's been obvious for a while that to get the best out of someone in any sporting context it's a balance of physical / mental prowess which takes work on both sides...

Hope that doesn't come across as me saying there shouldn't be support from the clubs, there absolutely should be but also in all levels of employment but that's pie in sky thinking apparently.

As for Dele, whatever happened / is happening seems sad. Don't think it's due to a lack of effort or James Maddison (fudging lol). Since it went downhill it always seemed like a return to MK Dons might be a good shout if it comes to it, go back to somewhere that might feel like home rather than Turkey or wherever. It would be a humbling return but a new line in the sand to start again.
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Yeh but mental health guidance should be available from the youth system preparing young men for what is to come, I think clubs have a duty of care in that respect, would help young men thrown into the light in what's almost a flick of a switch. I don't think money is the cure all either TBH, probably more of an enabling element to stick heads in sand. I also think it's probably largely beneficial to have someone inside the camp who can be seen to be there but also can observe and pick up on the signs.

I agree about Dele, I think he needs to clear the crude and feel home
 
spurspinter1 said:
To take it slightly off topic / continue the tangent I do feel that a bit much is made of a lack of mental health support at top level football clubs, maybe I'm being a little callous here but if you get paid an inordinate amount of money by a football club you can afford the best in terms of therapy / psychiatric support, to expect it to just be part of the package from the club seems a bit odd.

If a player only approaches the mental side of things because it's part of the deal and a box to tick at work like some obligatory team building exercise or flimflam e-learning course that's a worry, it's been obvious for a while that to get the best out of someone in any sporting context it's a balance of physical / mental prowess which takes work on both sides...

Hope that doesn't come across as me saying there shouldn't be support from the clubs, there absolutely should be but also in all levels of employment but that's pie in sky thinking apparently.

As for Dele, whatever happened / is happening seems sad. Don't think it's due to a lack of effort or James Maddison (fudging lol). Since it went downhill it always seemed like a return to MK Dons might be a good shout if it comes to it, go back to somewhere that might feel like home rather than Turkey or wherever. It would be a humbling return but a new line in the sand to start again.
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Quite the opposite.
I. The money can contribute to the illness.
II. The busier and more in a bubble you are, the harder it is to notice and act
III. From a commercial perspective - these are multimillion £ assets. You do whatever you have to to protect and enhance that asset. Mental health provision is just a good business decision. Maybe instead of being part of the package, it should be a paid for service? But clubs provide physios for physical issues, why not for mental?
 
monkeybarry said:
Quite the opposite.
I. The money can contribute to the illness.
II. The busier and more in a bubble you are, the harder it is to notice and act
III. From a commercial perspective - these are multimillion £ assets. You do whatever you have to to protect and enhance that asset. Mental health provision is just a good business decision. Maybe instead of being part of the package, it should be a paid for service? But clubs provide physios for physical issues, why not for mental?
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Interesting points. It can also be argued that a lack of money is probably worse for mental health but I appreciate having a brick load also brings on a differing range of problems alongside the pressure of top level sports + being in the public eye etc

Every employer / organisation should provide mental health support whether it's profitable or not, that's what I said. Even without designated psychologists the manager and backroom staff are constantly looking out for the player's welfare to get the best out of them.

Maybe it's a bitter point on my part but I'd rather people who are struggling with real life problems like scraping for bills breaking themselves with flimflam jobs as those people can't pay for the help they need themselves. It's probably way too off topic for the Maddison thread but I'm generally in to wellbeing before profit and so many people are struggling with fudge all support, I'm not going to be out there campaigning for extra help for the people with access to ludicrous funds for any kind of help they could need in return for kicking a football around. Perhaps it sounds like I'm laying in to them, they're human and often placed in to a crazy situation of wealth / exposure at a young age, but most people need more support, they're not hard done by (at the top level, I appreciate it must be difficult getting dropped from an academy and having to consider getting a brick job like normal people have to).

Edit - I don't mean to sound insensitive, footballers have real problems that aren't necessarily easily fixed by dosh and are human beings but they're not at the top of my sympathy list.
 
spurspinter1 said:
Interesting points. It can also be argued that a lack of money is probably worse for mental health but I appreciate having a brick load also brings on a differing range of problems alongside the pressure of top level sports + being in the public eye etc

Every employer / organisation should provide mental health support whether it's profitable or not, that's what I said. Even without designated psychologists the manager and backroom staff are constantly looking out for the player's welfare to get the best out of them.

Maybe it's a bitter point on my part but I'd rather people who are struggling with real life problems like scraping for bills breaking themselves with flimflam jobs as those people can't pay for the help they need themselves. It's probably way too off topic for the Maddison thread but I'm generally in to wellbeing before profit and so many people are struggling with fudge all support, I'm not going to be out there campaigning for extra help for the people with access to ludicrous funds for any kind of help they could need in return for kicking a football around. Perhaps it sounds like I'm laying in to them, they're human and often placed in to a crazy situation of wealth / exposure at a young age, but most people need more support, they're not hard done by (at the top level, I appreciate it must be difficult getting dropped from an academy and having to consider getting a brick job like normal people have to).

Edit - I don't mean to sound insensitive, footballers have real problems that aren't necessarily easily fixed by dosh and are human beings but they're not at the top of my sympathy list.
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Money oversimplifies mental health. I know couples that don't have two spare coppers to rub together that are the happiest couple going, I know other individuals making loads of money but aren't happy.
People are complex and money is only one factor in what brings happiness and mental well-being. You just have to look at Robin Williams to see that money is not just a simple answer to life's problems.

Footballers are an even worse case, they generally come from a poor background and are not taught how to deal with money and fame. Unless they have a very stable and supportive family they can easily run into problems with people using them.
It looks like Dele has run into some of those probs and doesn't have a proper support network in place to help him deal with those issues. He should be pitied not slaughtered and I think football in general lets the likes of him down badly.
Money doesn't give the knowledge to deal with such issues, education does and clubs should be more proactive in providing that education.
 
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