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Is this a fancier version of the Redknapp era?

If Jose can improve in-game decision-making that could be quite a coup that could last for years amongst the squad, even beyond his tenure.

Nothing wrong with a dream is there?
 
DubaiSpur said:
And that problem is two-fold - 1) our players are not as good as we think they are, and b) they have declined in quality as a consequence of Poch's high-intensity pressing, compounding the former problem.

The first is fairly easy to explain - our players thrived in a pressing system where closing the down the opposition was a way of life. When you close the opposition down and win the ball in a dangerous area with the aim of getting to goal as fast as possible, the obvious pass or dribble is usually simple to see, simple to execute - because it's closer to goal, and more instinctual, with no time to think.

Our players were great at that. But when we don't press as much? When we're in possession, stroking it around? Then creating a chance becomes an exercise of thought, figuring out the right things to do, playing the difficult pass, breaking down the opposition with controlled, intelligent play.

Our players *always* fell short of that, under Poch, and under Mourinho. The only thing now is that Mourinho doesn't bother to press, leaving them even more exposed. But they were never good at the sort of probing football that top teams can play - they were always instinctual, quick, basic. When it worked, it worked beautifully - when it didn't, we struggled, and relied on Eriksen and Kane (our only good passers) to create something out of thin air.

The second problem is that our players compensated for a certain lack of quality in their play by being energetic, strong, fast and superbly fit under Poch. However, all that took its toll - to be as superhumanly fit as Poch generally wanted, the players pushed themselves to levels they couldn't sustain - and now the regression is showing. There's no doubt in my mind that Kane is simply a *worse* player now than he was two years ago - mostly because, physically, he's declined. Likewise with Son, Dele, Lucas, Rose...the physical peaks they hit are simply impossible for them to meet now, since the damage of those times is now irreparable in my eyes. So we're dealing with worse players.

I think, if we were hoping for a systems manager to come in post-Poch, he would have had the same problems as Mourinho is now facing - maybe more, because the players simply can't execute a high-energy, high-intensity system anymore. It's why I think someone like Mourinho, who is laid back in his demands (at least, physically) is actually better at this point, to extract what we can from the players left over from the Poch era.

Poch saw this coming - he kept pleading for fresh legs and new players that never came. We all know what happened there. But I think it's unfair on Mourinho a little bit to blame him for either of the above. It's just where we are now - the consequences of the past half-decade of squad building, experiences and recruitment.
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It looks like we'll have 7 (should be 8 with Sess) new starters since last summer, we should well and truly be moving on from the Poch era.

Don't really agree with the physical toll you suggest with Sonny Dele Lucas...Im not seeing that with those 3
 
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Surely it’s a multitude of things
We have human beings for a start
Younger players are now older
New signings haven’t settled
Older players are now very old
Not enough in one position but too many in others
Change of ideas and ideals (multiple times)
A change in the level of player we were aiming for, which being additional expectations
New ground, new church, same GHod (sorry for any religious people)
Legacies of old managers
Legacies of new manager (with other clubs)
If you could predict and manage all these things you would be a genius or playing Football Manager
 
90291Spur said:
Yeah, but surely you pay someone squillions of quid a year to be able to cope with the bad luck that happens (admittedly losing Kane, Son AND Sissoko all in one was rare)?
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It’s all relative: we paid the others millions/year to achieve and the last one was Ramos...
Jose has won trophies...some of them possibly by the skin of his teeth. Tonight we won by the skin of our teeth.
Injuries aside, there’s been a brick load of mental fragility within the squad. I’m no psychotherapist but I would imagine that to change the mindset of the bulk of a team is not an overnight process, there will be some inertia that people need to reverse.
Let’s give him the season and judge then, not just him but the overall running of the club; for good or for bad.
 
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LemonadeMoney said:
Redknapp had a much more balanced team.
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He had the best balanced team of all the managers we have had since 2004. He was great at building teams but not so good at the in game tactics. Mourinho seems to be much more meticulous with the planning and generally better with changing things in game.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Surely it’s a multitude of things
We have human beings for a start
Younger players are now older
New signings haven’t settled
Older players are now very old
Not enough in one position but too many in others
Change of ideas and ideals (multiple times)
A change in the level of player we were aiming for, which being additional expectations
New ground, new church, same GHod (sorry for any religious people)
Legacies of old managers
Legacies of new manager (with other clubs)
If you could predict and manage all these things you would be a genius or playing Football Manager
Click to expand...


There isn't one reason or one person solely to blame for our problems.
And there isn't one easy fix either.
 
glasgowspur said:
There isn't one reason or one person solely to blame for our problems.
And there isn't one easy fix either.
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That’s the key
It’s nit cheap age one thing
It’s adapt to the circumstances as they change and stick together to overcome them
I do want that siege mentality back, the “them and us”
 
metalgear said:
For 70 minutes. Last 20 were always nail biting white knuckled finishes. I was younger then but felt watching spurs under redknapp was taking years out of my life. Jol too.

Sent from my SM-G985F using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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70 minutes? Rose-tinted glasses, I suspect. :p

Personally, I always dreaded going in at half-time less than 2-0 up, because I knew we'd come out for the second half an increasingly tired, increasingly desperate side. Those brilliant first halves where we flew out of the gates and absolutely blasted away the opposition came at a cost, and we usually saw that cost right after half-time when everyone from Real Madrid to Wigan Athletic would start bossing our lads as we fell further and further back. :p
 
First off, thanks to Milo again for having planted the thought out there (he reminded me that he had made an identical point before this thread...it just took me time to cotton on)...

Secondly, I am loving this conversation, really interesting. It has actually got me thinking about things from another perspective...football intelligence. Given that Mourinho has, by general agreement, not much of a structured tactical attacking plan and likes the players up there to express themselves, are they simply not quite as smart as we might've thought? Lucas is obviously not, but is Sonny perhaps not quite as astute/guile-laden as we might've thought? Is Dele not quite as smart as he thinks he is? Is it really the case that Eriksen -who did make us tick- was the most football intelligent player we had? Is this why we have largely struggled along with Mourinho, because the standard of smart he requires is not quite there?

I don't know, I have to think about it, but the question is worth throwing out there, because I cannot believe some of the non-runs I am seeing given the players we have?
 
thfcsteff said:
First off, thanks to Milo again for having planted the thought out there (he reminded me that he had made an identical point before this thread...it just took me time to cotton on)...

Secondly, I am loving this conversation, really interesting. It has actually got me thinking about things from another perspective...football intelligence. Given that Mourinho has, by general agreement, not much of a structured tactical attacking plan and likes the players up there to express themselves, are they simply not quite as smart as we might've thought? Lucas is obviously not, but is Sonny perhaps not quite as astute/guile-laden as we might've thought? Is Dele not quite as smart as he thinks he is? Is it really the case that Eriksen -who did make us tick- was the most football intelligent player we had? Is this why we have largely struggled along with Mourinho, because the standard of smart he requires is not quite there?

I don't know, I have to think about it, but the question is worth throwing out there, because I cannot believe some of the non-runs I am seeing given the players we have?
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If only we had that Modric metronome making us tick. I recall that he was often the pass BEFORE the assist. Maybe GLC will be that guy. Whom knows? The thing is, Harry APPEARED to be the crafty roosterney geezer, and seemed to be likable. I can't say the same about Jose. And as @metalgear said above, we played some scintillating footy under Redknapp. And we did show flashes of steel, even in defeat (4-3 at the San Siro, anybody?). And we showed the ability to implode (Real Madrid that same season). Hopefully Jose can do something, but I am doubtful, as the game has moved on and hoping to beat the likes of Leicester playing on the break is a risky strategy.
 
thfcsteff said:
First off, thanks to Milo again for having planted the thought out there (he reminded me that he had made an identical point before this thread...it just took me time to cotton on)...

Secondly, I am loving this conversation, really interesting. It has actually got me thinking about things from another perspective...football intelligence. Given that Mourinho has, by general agreement, not much of a structured tactical attacking plan and likes the players up there to express themselves, are they simply not quite as smart as we might've thought? Lucas is obviously not, but is Sonny perhaps not quite as astute/guile-laden as we might've thought? Is Dele not quite as smart as he thinks he is? Is it really the case that Eriksen -who did make us tick- was the most football intelligent player we had? Is this why we have largely struggled along with Mourinho, because the standard of smart he requires is not quite there?

I don't know, I have to think about it, but the question is worth throwing out there, because I cannot believe some of the non-runs I am seeing given the players we have?
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I flagged the lack of playing intelligence up a few months back. It was a Harry brooks the coach who raised it in a podcast
He thought it applied to son and Moura for sure, in that they need to told what to do. They can play instinctively but their actual runs and “strategy” had to be coached and taught
Dele he said played like a street footballer
Kane he was the smartest guy out there
 
Son is an interesting one. I love him and think he’s a great player and great lad. But he does frustrate sometimes. It always amazes me that he’s never seriously linked with a move anywhere let alone to one of the big boys.

Is that because clubs and managers see something in him that they don’t fancy? Is it because Sonny himself just wants to play for us? Is there some sort of bias at play because he’s Asian and there have been few Asian success stories in the big European leagues? I can’t make sense of it.
 
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