Igor the Interim

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

I'm more so referring to the earlier part of the season when we picked up more points. At some point that changed. Frank was far from perfect but I think we might have picked up a couple more points than we have since he was removed.

We were also looking a little better and more cohesive just at the point when he was sacked. The results weren't going our way but you could see some improved performances. I do think the Odobert Injury is what finally killed him off.

I actually agree that for a period under Frank we were starting to look more cohesive, like we were understanding more about what he wanted. Maybe around December time.

The issue is the players might have understood it more, but very clearly just didn’t believe in it. The belief went completely. Frank had to go.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

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Well go and flipping do it then.

Wouldn't it be an interesting experiment to just not have a manager at this moment!

Just a couple of coaches to keep training sessions ticking over but just leave tactics, formation to the team and leadership group. Puts the onus fully on THEM...to pull thru.

 

[DubSpur]

The numbers don't seem to back up what you're saying but I think it's fairly obvious why. The only 2 players who you would expect to play such passes are Kulu and Maddison and neither has been available this season. I'm not really surprised to see Bentancur, Sarr, Gray, Bergvall, Gallagher and Palhinha failing to make passes they don't really have the ability to play. Why would I expect them to?

@thfcsteff provided numbers from Squawk showing the numbers back it up 100%.

 

[fernadez]

@thfcsteff provided numbers from Squawk showing the numbers back it up 100%.

Those numbers are from Ange's entire range not last season. They actually show the drop off from his first season to his second.

 

[Bishop]

@thfcsteff provided numbers from Squawk showing the numbers back it up 100%.

Fernadez's numbers show no difference in through balls though. I don't whose numbers are more accurate, but watching it I don't see any difference. We weren't exactly spamming though balls under Ange, we played the same get it to the wide players have them cross it in football largely, to the lack of effectiveness.

Edit: Well there you go, the numbers confusion has been cleared up. There is actually no difference this or last season in terms of through balls and that was with Kulu and Maddison fit and available for periods.

I would say a deeper issue is that the CM under whichever manager will always be lacking in passing quality because frankly they lack passing quality. If Maddsion or Kulu are available that will massage the situation to some extent as we saw last season but it will still suffer from the same problems which again we saw last season because fundamentally we lack the correct profiles. Add a Nordgaard this season and I feel very certain we would have seen more forward central passes attempted by Frank simply because he would have the player profiles available to do so.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

A google search has given 5 through balls this season after 29 games (wow!!), whereas last season it was 18.

So heading for about a third this season compared to last if the current pace of 0.17 through balls per game persists.

No idea if the source is accurate but it does without doubt pass the eye test..

 

[braineclipse]

I suppose the issue with Kudus is the lack of quality depth. Putting aside B Johnson for the moment because he's not capable of playing in the manner Kudus was then we had a squad depth problem whereby Frank simply didn't feel he had an option to rest Kudus. In retrospect Odobert starting shining there so he probably should have tried that earlier but I'll admit that I also didn't like Odobert played on the right anytime I saw him there untill towards the very end of Frank tenure. So yes he probably lying did over play him but he also quite legitimately would not have felt he had any other options.

We went from him feeling like he had no other legitimate options to us having to use the other options for 3 months anyway. A very much both probable and predictable outcome. Short term and rather poor management for me.

 

[Mikey10]

We weren't capable of it under Ange that's the point. You've actually forgotten what the football was like under Ange last season. At times we were basically the 'Kulu team' if he wants rampaging around we had nothing.

You've even forgotten one of Ange's primary tactics was also playing with width and throwing blind crosses in. There were whole debates here where I said it was a bad tactic and people tried telling me it was the players faults for not being where these blind crosses were going.

I get it you didn't like Frank or the football he played but let's not mythologise and create false narratives. The football under Ange last season was just as awful but just represented slightly differently. This is why I complained about the quality of the players last season, it's why I'm complained about the quality of the players this season.

You need to go back and actually watch the football we played last season, it's not what you're remembering it to be.

The myth of Angeball remains strong.

Wouldn't it be an interesting experiment to just not have a manager at this moment!

Just a couple of coaches to keep training sessions ticking over but just leave tactics, formation to the team and leadership group. Puts the onus fully on THEM...to pull thru.

Said it on here yesterday. Put Romero in charge (or Romero and VDV - although the latter seems to be having some sort of extistential crisis, if the latest quotes are to be believed, so maybe not) as a joint decision maker with Mason or Defoe or A.N. Other with a strong club connection. Nothing then for the players to hide behind.

 

[DubSpur]

Fernadez's numbers show no difference in through balls though. I don't whose numbers are more accurate, but watching it I don't see any difference. We weren't exactly spamming though balls under Ange, we played the same get it to the wide players have them cross it in football largely, to the lack of effectiveness.

Edit: Well there you go, the numbers confusion has been cleared up. There is actually no difference this or last season in terms of through balls and that was with Kulu and Maddison fit and available for periods.

I would say a deeper issue is that the CM under whichever manager will always be lacking in passing quality because frankly they lack passing quality. If Maddsion or Kulu are available that will massage the situation to some extent as we saw last season but it will still suffer from the same problems which again we saw last season because fundamentally we lack the correct profiles. Add a Nordgaard this season and I feel very certain we would have seen more forward central passes attempted by Frank simply because he would have the player profiles available to do so.

There's no confusion to be cleared up, there is a huge difference in this season and last season with a horrible drop off in through balls this season.

Most Through Balls Tottenham Hotspur 24-25 Season | StatMuse

Tottenham Hotspur completed their most through balls in the Premier League in 2024-25, with 18 through balls.

www.statmuse.com

Spurs Through Balls 25/26 | StatMuse

Tottenham Hotspur have completed 5 through balls in the Premier League this season.

www.statmuse.com