I remember a time when...

[Nutter-Naylor]

I believe that football should be whatever price the club chooses for it to be.

There are plenty of clubs that drop their prices in order to fill their stadium, those that value noise over quality would probably be happier there. I prefer for my club to be the best they can be, if that means high ticket prices then I couldn't care less.

Ergo, you are happy with the total Goonerisation of the club where fans pay as much as £123.50 (Cat A, upper tier, halfway line) to sit in silence?

 

[Spursalot]

Ergo, you are happy with the total Goonerisation of the club where fans pay as much as £123.50 (Cat A, upper tier, halfway line) to sit in silence?

Capitalism at work no?

If people are willing to pay that much, than that is what it is worth.




If the Gooners were that annoyed about prices, than they should do something about it.

 

[Nutter-Naylor]

Capitalism at work no?

If people are willing to pay that much, than that is what it is worth.


If the Gooners were that annoyed about prices, than they should do something about it.

Some of them do. The three that i work with that were ST/regular attendees until the last couple of seaons now go to no more than a couple of matches a season (if any). Another three from my local that used to do around 6-8 games a season never go now.

The club are happy as they have all been replaced by tourists who spend more in the club shop.

 

[CoolburyClub]

Not to the extent where there isn't even one scouse accent in the whole bar. Let's remember why alot of these clubs were formed. I've got nothing against football being inclusive to all demograhics but when it goes so far towards appeasing one demographic of supporter at the expense of squeezing out all local support then it kind of defeats the point.

May as well just make Spurs or Liverpool a franchise that can be shipped out to the far East with all the manifacturing jobs. Make it more "cost-effective" wouldn't it?

Let's have it right, Spurs fans went a long way towards appeasing the new breed of fan, they had the Paxton, the West Stand and most of the East. The trouble was, it still wasn't enough.

They had to be where "the buzz" was in the Park Lane and the Shelf. But they didn't like the standing, thought fans got "too excitable" so wrote to the club in droves and got them to clamp down on anyone even showing the vaguest signs or troubling symptoms of having anything approaching a charismatic or witty personality.

Hence the tedious, predictable songs that have been whittled down to the most banal one or two. Bores the tears out of me. There's santistion and over-sanitisation and I think we've long since reached a tipping point in neutralisation.

 

[CoolburyClub]

It's true and it is sad. Remember laughing when it was happening to the Gooners in the 90's but it is just the reality. Especially with rising living costs it is simple economics to most that watching the game down the boozer with a bit of a laugh and an atmosphere beats sitting in a ground full of tourists with an atmosphere that would make you feel like you'd rather be down the pub anyway.

Then everyone leaves with 20 minutes to go. Simple fact is Spurs probably can sell 35,000-36,000 but I promise you we'll have trouble selling out 50,000 in a new stadium with such a flat atmosphere.

Look at City the other night, home game on a Saturday night and it was met with general ambivalence. Empty seats everywhere and I guarantee most stayed in the pubs.

It's not sustainable. It isn't working either, unless you count cleansing the game of its most loyal support "working" according to some half-baked marketing concept.

 

[ArcspacE]

Simple fact is Spurs probably can sell 35,000-36,000 but I promise you we'll have trouble selling out 50,000 in a new stadium with such a flat atmosphere.

Not true in the slightest

 

[Nutter-Naylor]

Not true in the slightest

Actually i would say it was bang on.

The Lazio game was included as part of the ST & we had a crowd of 25,030 vs a 36.5k capacity.

Maribor is part of the ST & only £20 so it might be ok

Panathinaikos could be embarrasing, especially if we are already out of the competition by that time.

60k? Maybe for Arse, Man U, Chavs, poss Liverpool & some CL games if we qualify. Thats it.

 

[scaramanga]

Ergo, you are happy with the total Goonerisation of the club where fans pay as much as £123.50 (Cat A, upper tier, halfway line) to sit in silence?

That's not goonerisation and it's disingenuous to suggest it is in order to prove a point. Paying £123.50 is simply increased prices, which I will happily pay if that's what Spurs tickets cost. Goonerisation is filling the stands with goons, and I'd be surprised to see that happen no matter what happens to the prices.

 

[scaramanga]

They had to be where "the buzz" was in the Park Lane and the Shelf. But they didn't like the standing, thought fans got "too excitable" so wrote to the club in droves and got them to clamp down on anyone even showing the vaguest signs or troubling symptoms of having anything approaching a charismatic or witty personality.

Do you have any basis for this belief other than an irrational hatred of those born into comfortable lives?

As I understand it, the club tells the stewards to make everyone sit down because they get fined if they don't. In fact, the club was regularly getting fined due to our behaviour a few years ago, I'd be surprised if that's changed.

 

[jts1882]

May as well just make Spurs or Liverpool a franchise that can be shipped out to the far East with all the manifacturing jobs. Make it more "cost-effective" wouldn't it?

Don't give them ideas.

We are already seeing the NFL and NBA play games abroad and talk about a franchise outside North America. The NFL are talking about a London team within a decade. Its more difficult with football as there are more than one strong national leagues, but the PL is promoting itself worldwide much more effectively that La Liga, where it is all about two clubs. The idea of a 39th game will be revisited or possibly a few games played abroad - Sky Super Sunday live from Shanghai, featuring the Liverpool Red Sox and the Manchester Camel-jockeys* ...

The owners have become global and will be more receptive to these ideas and if the NFL and NBA prove a national league can become global I'm sure they will try it.



---------------------------
* Or is this considered racist in all contexts? Note I'm mocking the club, not a group of people.

 

[Spursalot]

Don't give them ideas.

We are already seeing the NFL and NBA play games abroad and talk about a franchise outside North America. The NFL are talking about a London team within a decade. Its more difficult with football as there are more than one strong national leagues, but the PL is promoting itself worldwide much more effectively that La Liga, where it is all about two clubs. The idea of a 39th game will be revisited or possibly a few games played abroad - Sky Super Sunday live from Shanghai, featuring the Liverpool Red Sox and the Manchester Camel-jockeys* ...

The owners have become global and will be more receptive to these ideas and if the NFL and NBA prove a national league can become global I'm sure they will try it.



---------------------------
* Or is this considered racist in all contexts? Note I'm mocking the club, not a group of people.

I would not be against the community shield being played abroad.

It's not like much would be lost.

 

[Jordinho]

I would not be against the community shield being played abroad.

It's not like much would be lost.

Precious income for Wembley?

 

[Spursalot]

Precious income for Wembley?

Exactly. Wembley.


Not much would be lost.

 

[Baleforce]

can't see the clubs going for that, its a massive inconvenience already (especially for teams playing in the CL qualifiers), would be twice as bad playing it abroad

 

[Rossi22]

Actually i would say it was bang on.

The Lazio game was included as part of the ST & we had a crowd of 25,030 vs a 36.5k capacity.

Maribor is part of the ST & only £20 so it might be ok

Panathinaikos could be embarrasing, especially if we are already out of the competition by that time.

60k? Maybe for Arse, Man U, Chavs, poss Liverpool & some CL games if we qualify. Thats it.

Because the game was only available to those and members.

 

[parklane1]

One thing that I do recall is that qualifying for Europe at all was something that was greeted with wild celebrations. Now the obsession with the Champs League has kind of diluted the impact.

Thought we had a pretty good team the year we had Klinsmann, Barmby and Sheringham firing on all cylinders in 1995, we wiped the floor with Blackburn the champions that year at WHL, beating them 3-1 and we should have won the FA Cup that year. Had we beat Everton we would have won the Cup that year cos United were in terrible form by the time they played the Cup Final.

As for the rest of it well in all honesty I think with success unfortunately you also get a different breed of fan and though we weren't successful in that period what success we did have seemed to mean ten times more whereas going to the semi-final against Pompey the other year was appalled at how miserably quiet Spurs fans were.

If an FA Cup semi-final doesn't get the blood pumping than I really don't know what you're doing with a Spurs shirt on and when I look around me these days when I do go I find it hard to relate to the type of whiny, tinny, sense of entitlement fan who never gets behind their team and just expects everything to be handed to them on a plate. Types of fans who we just never had until we went in the Champs League.

I remember a 3rd round League Cup match away at Coventry used to bring real feelings of elation or despair if we won or lost and these days out were worth ten of the kind of days we have now with the rip off merchandising and the club that doesn't care less about loyal support.

It's all marketing and hot air now. I'm not naive though, some people say that Spurs going back to mediocrity would be good for morale and bring back the kind of support we began to lose in the 00's and has gone into decline more noticeably over the past 5 seasons.

A Lot of these people aren't coming back football stopped being a realistically affordable game for older teenagers to go regularly to in the mid-90's there just isn't another generation to replace them. Being a Spurs fan should be about going regularly and building up a real affinity with the other supporters you are going with.

We're going through that period of transition Arsenal went through in the 90's when everyone wanted to be a Gooner. I remember everyone who was clueless abut football either climbing aboard the Arsenal or Chelsea bandwagon and nearly everyone I knew at school did this, including a couple of Spurs fans who switched to Chelsea once the 91 Cup Win and all the Gazza hysteria began to wear off and we began to go into decline by the start of the Premier League.

I see them parading on their Facebook pages all day long. Pictures of Arsenal victories (er, weren't you a QPR fan mate?), Chelsea (you were Spurs before Gazza went to Lazio) and all the other Liverpool/United fans who seem to have drifted from club to club over the years and who have somehow found themselves at either Emirates Marketing Project or Spurs over the past few years to catch a glimpse of Gareth Bale and pretending they always did even though you've never seen them at Spurs in your life.

That's what has astonished me, Spurs never used to be that type of club where you had to stop yourself and go "Spurs, you were never Spurs, never in a million years", but it is and they are now.

The last night I remember Spurs fans really behaving like Spurs fans was against Seville when we were 2 goals down and out of the Cup at half-time. Atmosphere was electric and start of the second half the crowd were singing "4 goals, we only need 4 goals" and the players put the effort in and got a 2-2 draw, even making it interesting for a while as if we had of got the 3rd Seville would have been against the ropes.

That's not to say Spurs fans never had high standards, to be fair Spurs fans have always been very critical and held players to high standards because of the traditions of the club. I can still remember fans screaming at Gazza to pass it or Waddle to cut his hair etc...

But like the Seville game when it was all said and done we got our frustration out of our system and instead of bitching and moaning just got behind the team instead. We had that game against Seville in this day and age, I'd be surprised if there were any fans left for the beginning of the second half, let alone an atmosphere.

i agree with most of that mate, having been a supporter and season ticket holder for more years then i care to remember, i despair at some of the macarons that sit at the Lane and do nothing but slag off the players, manager and boo at the first sign of things going wrong.

For those who say nothing has changed they really are fooling themselves if they really believe that, of course fans have always moaned but its seems that nowadays a misplaced pass can send lots of fans into a hysterical rant about the parentage of the said player.

 

[lurker of old]

nowadays a misplaced pass can send lots of fans into a hysterical rant about the parentage of the said player.
It has always been that way - when I first went to the Lane in the 80s, I couldn't believe how critical the fans were. But the atmosphere thing is a big deal. You need the hard-core fans to get tinkled and start new songs, you need most fans to want to sing and chant and create some atmosphere. Throwing people out for standing will have removed a lot of the real hardcore fans, and once you kill an atmosphere it is hard to bring back.

 

[parklane1]

nowadays a misplaced pass can send lots of fans into a hysterical rant about the parentage of the said player.
It has always been that way - when I first went to the Lane in the 80s, I couldn't believe how critical the fans were. But the atmosphere thing is a big deal. You need the hard-core fans to get tinkled and start new songs, you need most fans to want to sing and chant and create some atmosphere. Throwing people out for standing will have removed a lot of the real hardcore fans, and once you kill an atmosphere it is hard to bring back.

One or two fans slagging of players is nothing new ( which is what i said in my earlier post) but it is a lot worse now then t ever was, if you attended on a regular basis in the 80's and do so now you surely see that :-k

 

[Nutter-Naylor]

Because the game was only available to those and members.

Brilliant logic. So with STs taking 22-23k of the 25k sold, the 30k+ Bronze & 20k+ Lillywhite members couldn't raise enough demand to take up the other 13-14k tickets up for grabs.

We can only sell out Europe games if they go on general sale........ :-k

 

[Nutter-Naylor]

nowadays a misplaced pass can send lots of fans into a hysterical rant about the parentage of the said player.
It has always been that way - when I first went to the Lane in the 80s, I couldn't believe how critical the fans were. But the atmosphere thing is a big deal. You need the hard-core fans to get tinkled and start new songs, you need most fans to want to sing and chant and create some atmosphere. Throwing people out for standing will have removed a lot of the real hardcore fans, and once you kill an atmosphere it is hard to bring back.

Unless safe-standing is introduced, atmosphere as we know & love it is gone.