How much will we spend this summer?

[Gutter Boy]

We'll do it again next summer, though. 'Surely THIS will be the season Levy turns us into real contenders'. Lemmings, I tell you, lemmings. And I'm sure that most of us are intelligent, well-rounded folk in our jobs and lives outside of football, so why we turn into eternally optimistic, blindly trusting slobs every year is still a mystery to me.

7 years down, 3 to go (paying for the stadium).

Next window or two we might get some of Schneiderlin, Rodriguez, Musacchio etc., but will pay for them by selling Dembele, Lennon, Naughton, Kaboul and Chiriches etc.

 

[DubaiSpur]

i still think we would have spent the money required to get our first choice targets, as long as the club thought the price was right. Moreno (Davies) Schneiderlin (Stambouli) Mussachio (Fazio) Rodriguez ( ) - it seemed interest was genuine as in most of those examples we had the players on board for the deals, I just don't think we are prepared to cave in to selling clubs demands if we perceive their valuations to be too high.

maybe we should have bit the bullet and paid what was required, but then when the likes of Liverpool, Arsenal and United can all blow us out the water financially would we have just ended up paying 30m more or whatever only to find ourselves still looking up at them?

I doomed aren't i? :lol:

Oh, you doomed. There is a reason that chairmen routinely refer to us as being one of the most difficult clubs in the world to negotiate with, and that goes for both sales and incoming transfers. We benefit from Levy's Scrooge McDuck attitude when it comes to sales, but his reluctance to bite the bullet on buys will ultimately leave us where we are now: consistently between 5th and 6th, sacking talented manager after talented manager, looking up at 4th place and wondering if things might have turned out differently had we only strengthened when we were in the ascendancy (January 2011, January 2012) .....but ultimately still somewhat inanely hoping that things will have changed by the time the next summer rolls around.

You doomed. I doomed. We all doomed.

7 years down, 3 to go (paying for the stadium).

Next window or two we might get some of Schneiderlin, Rodriguez, Musacchio etc., but will pay for them by selling Dembele, Lennon, Naughton, Kaboul and Chiriches etc.

We won't get Schneiderlin or Rodriguez, that much is guaranteed. However, what happened to Levy's assurances all those years ago that the stadium would be built without impacting on the transfer policy of the club? I assume 2008, but I can't be sure.

 

[metalgear]

stadium first guys.

the wildcard here is Poch of course. We've got a decent stock of players - above average definitely - if Poch can get them punching above their weight, we're in sight of Champions League places.

 

[Gutter Boy]

However, what happened to Levy's assurances all those years ago that the stadium would be built without impacting on the transfer policy of the club? I assume 2008, but I can't be sure.

Well we've been selling to buy, rather than selling to pay for the stadium (which Arsenal had to do to some extent IIRC), so it hasn't been that bad.

Also it's good that we are going to pay for the stadium upfront, rather than be saddled with debt + interest for a decade afterwards.

 

[Lilywhite]

Well done to me and many others who went for the predictable 'less than we get from sales' option.

Was it ever going to be any different? The club has no ambition. Last summer was do or die for Levy, wp to him for investing the Bale money but the problem is we wasted so much of it and now I think he's given up and is just going to be tight as **** until we get the stadium before Lewis sells the club.

I didn't want a massive overhaul this summer, we could do without another long transition but we all knew we needed to shift a few **** players and bring in at least three of the below:

A top centre back (Musacchio)
A top left back (Rodriguez)
A top midfielder (Schneiderlin)
A top winger (Depay)
A top striker (Remy)

We haven't got any of them. Fazio is meant to be proper slow so I don't see how he fits into Pochettino's high-line. Ben Davies I've never been a fan of, the 'hes Luke Shaw without the hype' shouts are stupid, we paid way too much for him. Stambouli was obviously a backup plan to Schneiderlin and we have no idea what he'll be like, but if he's a defensive player then he's not needed unless he's amazing. We didn't get a winger or striker. Which leaves us with

LLORIS Vorm Friedel
VERTONGHEN FAZIO Chiriches Kaboul Dier
WALKER ROSE Naughton Davies
CAPOUE DEMBELE Stambouli Paulinho Bentaleb
LAMELA ERIKSEN CHADLI Lennon Townsend
ADEBAYOR Kane Soldado

Which will be more than good enough to get 6th or 7th but if Levy has given Pochettino unrealistic expectations then he's ****ed him over by not signing players we need. That's the weakest squad we've had in nearly a decade IMO. Not a very exciting one either, not a single player who gets you off your seat (Lamela could provide that, dunno).

With all that said I'm happy we didn't get Welbeck. He's dog**** and weakens the gooners IMO.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Well done to me and many others who went for the predictable 'less than we get from sales' option.

Was it ever going to be any different? The club has no ambition. Last summer was do or die for Levy, wp to him for investing the Bale money but the problem is we wasted so much of it and now I think he's given up and is just going to be tight as **** until we get the stadium before Lewis sells the club.

I didn't want a massive overhaul this summer, we could do without another long transition but we all knew we needed to shift a few **** players and bring in at least three of the below:

A top centre back (Musacchio)
A top left back (Rodriguez)
A top midfielder (Schneiderlin)
A top winger (Depay)
A top striker (Remy)

We haven't got any of them. Fazio is meant to be proper slow so I don't see how he fits into Pochettino's high-line. Ben Davies I've never been a fan of, the 'hes Luke Shaw without the hype' shouts are stupid, we paid way too much for him. Stambouli was obviously a backup plan to Schneiderlin and we have no idea what he'll be like, but if he's a defensive player then he's not needed unless he's amazing. We didn't get a winger or striker. Which leaves us with

LLORIS Vorm Friedel
VERTONGHEN FAZIO Chiriches Kaboul Dier
WALKER ROSE Naughton Davies
CAPOUE DEMBELE Stambouli Paulinho Bentaleb
LAMELA ERIKSEN CHADLI Lennon Townsend
ADEBAYOR Kane Soldado

Which will be more than good enough to get 6th or 7th but if Levy has given Pochettino unrealistic expectations then he's ****ed him over by not signing players we need. That's the weakest squad we've had in nearly a decade IMO. Not a very exciting one either, not a single player who gets you off your seat (Lamela could provide that, dunno).

With all that said I'm happy we didn't get Welbeck. He's dog**** and weakens the gooners IMO.

There's always this hyperbole about now or never, do or die, speculate to accumulate. But that's just instant gratification hype - things move much slower than that. Our decline from 5th to 12th lasted a decade (1994-2004) and our revival back up to 6th has taken just as long (2004-2014).

Only the new stadium and organic growth will push us on beyond where we are, not credit card spending on those ever illusive final pieces of the jigsaw.

The major thing the world cup showed is that the age of individuals is at an end. All the teams reliant on big names flopped. The teams that succeeded were those that were balanced, disciplined, organised and a collective.

Remember transfers are basically human resources. Business on the pitch is much more important.

 

[Lilywhite]

I have said I have changed my mind on Pochettino, from originally being underwhelmed to now being excited, but even a good coach has a ceiling if his players aren't good enough. We looked like an excellent well functioning team against QPR, then we come up against one of the league's best and get pumped... Poch doesn't have anywhere near as good choices as his adversaries, so it looks like another season of beating the dross and getting battered by the best. I'm not OK with that, we should have brought in at least two of the above and kicked on.

I'm realistic enough not to expect top four, there are five teams a hell of a lot stronger than us, but just a few signs of improvement would be nice yet Levy is trusting in the manager to provide all of that. I can already see how this is going to end.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I have said I have changed my mind on Pochettino, from originally being underwhelmed to now being excited, but even a good coach has a ceiling if his players aren't good enough. We looked like an excellent well functioning team against QPR, then we come up against one of the league's best and get pumped... Poch doesn't have anywhere near as good choices as his adversaries, so it looks like another season of beating the dross and getting battered by the best. I'm not OK with that, we should have brought in at least two of the above and kicked on.

I'm realistic enough not to expect top four, there are five teams a hell of a lot stronger than us, but just a few signs of improvement would be nice yet Levy is trusting in the manager to provide all of that. I can already see how this is going to end.

Poch has had 2 months. Rodgers has had 2 years.

I reckon give it 12 months and we'll be ahead of Liverpool again.

The two doped clubs are untouchable, but I reckon we aren't that far behind Liverpool, Arsenal and United at all. All 3 are very questionable at the back and will drop plenty of points because of that.

 

[billyiddo]

Well we've been selling to buy, rather than selling to pay for the stadium (which Arsenal had to do to some extent IIRC), so it hasn't been that bad.

Also it's good that we are going to pay for the stadium upfront, rather than be saddled with debt + interest for a decade afterwards.

Our accounts suggest we have been breaking even (more or less) so where is the evidence we are able to pay for the stadium without incurring debt?

Obviously i hope that turns out to be the case - would be a masterstroke in fact - but i don't see evidence of a pile of cash building over the years.

 

[Jordinho]

Our accounts suggest we have been breaking even (more or less) so where is the evidence we are able to pay for the stadium without incurring debt?

Obviously i hope that turns out to be the case - would be a masterstroke in fact - but i don't see evidence of a pile of cash building over the years.

I think most of the money that's left over after wages has so far gone on planning and land acquisition. With the new training ground we're probably past 100 million, though some of it is still there in loans.

 

[billyiddo]

But that still leaves the actual build cost, which will be the lions share of the overall cost of the stadium - 200 odd mil at a guess

 

[Jordinho]

But that still leaves the actual
Build cost, which will be the lions share of the overall cost of the stadium - 200 odd mil at a guess

Hopefully Naming Rights inc. will foot at least half of that. If we can get our annual loan payments below 10 million we'll soon be swimming in cash.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Our accounts suggest we have been breaking even (more or less) so where is the evidence we are able to pay for the stadium without incurring debt?

Obviously i hope that turns out to be the case - would be a masterstroke in fact - but i don't see evidence of a pile of cash building over the years.

They will move funds between THFC, ENIC, TH Property Limited, Kondor and Tavistock, to pay as little tax as possible (so probably out of THFC and into the ones registered in the Bahamas).

Since we turned back private in January 2012 the club has had to be far less transparent.

TH Property Limited seems to be the dedicated company setup to handle the stadium finances - so their books will be much more interesting than THFC's.

I think most of the money that's left over after wages has so far gone on planning and land acquisition. With the new training ground we're probably past 100 million, though some of it is still there in loans.

There's a couple of things from Levy's statement in April:
- The non-core properties we invested in are now being sold - this will apparently cover the full £100m that was spent acquiring the 18 acre site
- We paid upfront for Phase 1 (the supermarket and college), so will have money coming in from selling these
- Design development and pre-construction works to-date have all been paid as they've come up
- We wiped all our training ground debts with a £40m injection (loan converted into equity) from ENIC

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/financial-results-shareholder-and-stadium-update-020414/

The stadium build has always been quoted at £450m, with £200m on the site and £250m on the stadium build.

It sounds like we've already paid the site costs, and are probably a good £50m down the line on the build (demolition, ground work, design and planning etc). £100m will likely come from 10x£10m pa naming rights, leaving £100m that ENIC hopefully have stashed from the c.£20m a year they have been saving on transfer investments for the last 6-7 years.

 

[billyiddo]

So that's a 'no' on the evidence then?

 

[Gutter Boy]

So that's a 'no' on the evidence then?

There's no way there could be. We aren't a PLC and our owners are registered in the Bahamas, not the UK.

And even if we were a PLC, there wouldn't be £200m sat in a savings account - that would be very bad financial practice. It has to be kept away from the taxman and made to work hard.

 

[AdamB]

the wildcard here is Poch of course. We've got a decent stock of players - above average definitely - if Poch can get them punching above their weight, we're in sight of Champions League places.

When have Spurs ever had a manager who is able to do that?!?!?

 

[tw12yid]

Just had a looked at what our net transfer spend has been since the arrival of Levy. Obviously transfer fees are not always widely reported so won't be 100% accurate. So from 01/02 season till now i work out that the net transfer spend is £108 200 000 or an average of £8 323 076 a season. Five of the last 6 season we have made a profit, resulting in a net transfer spend of -£25 350 000.

 

[milo]

So that's a 'no' on the evidence then?

I don't believe for a second that there is a nest egg sitting there to pay for the stadium. I'm sure that it will be funded by loans and the naming rights.

We might not publish our reports any more but we still file high accounts at Companies House and the Deloitte Annual Review of Football Finance gives a pretty good idea of where we are financially.

 

[Andyandy]

Just had a looked at what our net transfer spend has been since the arrival of Levy. Obviously transfer fees are not always widely reported so won't be 100% accurate. So from 01/02 season till now i work out that the net transfer spend is £108 200 000 or an average of £8 323 076 a season. Five of the last 6 season we have made a profit, resulting in a net transfer spend of -£25 350 000.

Wages are also typically not small...I think that we changed our wage structure recently too.

Our squad is still bloated many of them earning many millions per year.

 

[Andyandy]

I don't believe for a second that there is a nest egg sitting there to pay for the stadium. I'm sure that it will be funded by loans and the naming rights.

We might not publish our reports any more but we still file high accounts at Companies House and the Deloitte Annual Review of Football Finance gives a pretty good idea of where we are financially.

Nest egg? Ha!

Nobody would save for a stadium, it's an asset which can be paid off over 25 years.

I would guess that the business plan for upgrading the stadium will have expected for us to maintain our current net income plus any additional season ticket sales.

The only risks to income would be if we don't make the Europa league or see our income drop for some other now unforeseen reason.

Whether or not the recent bumper tv deal was factored in or not, who knows but it would be a direct risk to our long term if we didn't maintain a squad capable of regular Europa cup qualification. On the other hand, we could build the stadium, sell off much of our squad to generate 50-100m, pay off a lump and simply aim to stay in the league whilst we rebuild.

What I am saying is, don't expect to see the financial benefit of the new stadium to really show for at least a decade from now.