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Harry Kane MBE

since West Brom Kane has scored 5 goals in the league, Bale 4, Moura 2, Son 1

in the 21 games prior the 3rd biggest scorer in our whole squad had 3 league goals

in these 5 games (+ City) the 3rd biggest scorer has 2 - that shows there's already an improvement on the spread of goals over the sample of games being used and it's simply just not a case that there are 2 goal scorers in the way it is being implied - not that that was the main issue anyway
 
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I think you are misinterpreting (perhaps deliberately?).... What was unsustainable was having only a single way to create chances.... Invite the opposition on, drop Kane into space centrally in our half, have him turn and feed Son. Teams started to get their central midfield player to stay close to Kane even when they were the team in possession and we had no other plan. Our CBS and CMs now look as though they are noticeably higher up by default in most games now than they were when we were defending the edge of our own area in those games we tried to hang on to.
I’m implying (to be belligerent) that the team is now playing better as we have our best players fit and able and having only 2 goals scorers really isn’t an issue of everything else works
We IMO played the way we did as a reaction to West Ham. I think we all agree on that
We also then had a spell of great results that followed and we went top of the league with the players we had fit and available (that didn’t include Dele and his now more known issues or bale for big chunks for example).

After the pool defeat something went wrong and we crashed badly. The players made repeated mistakes to concede goals and were very poor in front of goal with the chances we had. In that spell we actually lost quite a few players in the attacking areas for varying reason (lamela, Moura and Vinny over Christmas for Covid issues [im guessing around the Brazilians] and we didn’t have good Dele or Bale available either). That spell was when we were poor in front of our goal and the oppositions
As players have come back Jose has actually adapted the team. We played 3-4-3 successful games when he had the right full backs available, but it was a disaster when they weren’t.
Now what we’re seeing is a fully fit squad injury wise and also some players capable and able of playing 90mins which they couldn’t pre Christmas (despite being professional footballers). And we look miles better for it
We have actual width again from the FBs, we have creativity in attack and because we have more capability wide we’re actually seeing less crosses hurting us which is a weak spot in our defence.
I don’t think the CBS are playing any higher but our FBs certainly are and that’s the key dynamic change. Reggie is overlapping son giving son options wide and central. That puts a decision in the mind of the position defender that they don’t have to make with Davies. Aurier does the same and Doherty does too which means the opposition naturally get pegged back more. And that can then mean the CBS can step out more (we have seen some great examples of that lately). It’s a more natural game for our players which was a lot of people’s frustrations with the more defensive tactics.
 
There is no way the only tactic was to pass to Kane deep to feed Son, that is way too simplistic a read, if you watch the games we struggled in again you will still see a defence trying to play out from the back, primarily through the full backs and then wide forwards, what you'll also see, and what we are not seeing so much of now, some terrible passing, some terrible control, and some terrible decision making, you'll also see less effort from attacking players to get separation from their markers and find space in which to work.

Yes, players returning from injury has helped, but the bigger fix has been players working harder.
 
I’m implying (to be belligerent) that the team is now playing better as we have our best players fit and able and having only 2 goals scorers really isn’t an issue of everything else works
We IMO played the way we did as a reaction to West Ham. I think we all agree on that
We also then had a spell of great results that followed and we went top of the league with the players we had fit and available (that didn’t include Dele and his now more known issues or bale for big chunks for example).

After the pool defeat something went wrong and we crashed badly. The players made repeated mistakes to concede goals and were very poor in front of goal with the chances we had. In that spell we actually lost quite a few players in the attacking areas for varying reason (lamela, Moura and Vinny over Christmas for Covid issues [im guessing around the Brazilians] and we didn’t have good Dele or Bale available either). That spell was when we were poor in front of our goal and the oppositions
As players have come back Jose has actually adapted the team. We played 3-4-3 successful games when he had the right full backs available, but it was a disaster when they weren’t.
Now what we’re seeing is a fully fit squad injury wise and also some players capable and able of playing 90mins which they couldn’t pre Christmas (despite being professional footballers). And we look miles better for it
We have actual width again from the FBs, we have creativity in attack and because we have more capability wide we’re actually seeing less crosses hurting us which is a weak spot in our defence.
I don’t think the CBS are playing any higher but our FBs certainly are and that’s the key dynamic change. Reggie is overlapping son giving son options wide and central. That puts a decision in the mind of the position defender that they don’t have to make with Davies. Aurier does the same and Doherty does too which means the opposition naturally get pegged back more. And that can then mean the CBS can step out more (we have seen some great examples of that lately). It’s a more natural game for our players which was a lot of people’s frustrations with the more defensive tactics.

I think the "only two goal scorers" narrative was always a little oversold

- It was always a EPL only issue
- When players are on a hot streak (as Kane/Son were) it automatically skews the numbers on a smaller sample size
- First team was not locked, i.e. RW and 3rd CM (role now held by Bale and Lucas but we had cycled through Bergwijn, Lamela, Winks, Sissoko, etc.)
- We very rarely had everyone fit, which as I mentioned not only limited 1st team, but bench capability,

That said, I do believe tactically we have adapted

- Kane doesn't drop as deep, as Lucas/Dele/Lamela plays the #10 role
- Reguilon/Son totally overload the opponents right side supported by the player in #10 role
- While Aurier/Doherty do sit higher, they don't push on as much as Reguilon, this creates a space for Bale to drop back into and use his passing range
- Bale adds an aerial threat (at least half of his 10 goals are headers) that we simply didn't have
- There is more license to pack the box (Kane goal from outside box against Palace, I think they were four Spurs players in front of him)

Sounds simple, i.e. just attack more, but to use Jose's expression, it's a puzzle and the pieces need to work together.

For what it's worth, we have 3 players in double figures, with two more 1 goal away from reaching that figure.
 
There is no way the only tactic was to pass to Kane deep to feed Son, that is way too simplistic a read, if you watch the games we struggled in again you will still see a defence trying to play out from the back, primarily through the full backs and then wide forwards, what you'll also see, and what we are not seeing so much of now, some terrible passing, some terrible control, and some terrible decision making, you'll also see less effort from attacking players to get separation from their markers and find space in which to work.

Yes, players returning from injury has helped, but the bigger fix has been players working harder.
It was part of the tactics but there was other things that were also meant to happen tactically
 
I think the "only two goal scorers" narrative was always a little oversold

- It was always a EPL only issue
- When players are on a hot streak (as Kane/Son were) it automatically skews the numbers on a smaller sample size
- First team was not locked, i.e. RW and 3rd CM (role now held by Bale and Lucas but we had cycled through Bergwijn, Lamela, Winks, Sissoko, etc.)
- We very rarely had everyone fit, which as I mentioned not only limited 1st team, but bench capability,

That said, I do believe tactically we have adapted

- Kane doesn't drop as deep, as Lucas/Dele/Lamela plays the #10 role
- Reguilon/Son totally overload the opponents right side supported by the player in #10 role
- While Aurier/Doherty do sit higher, they don't push on as much as Reguilon, this creates a space for Bale to drop back into and use his passing range
- Bale adds an aerial threat (at least half of his 10 goals are headers) that we simply didn't have
- There is more license to pack the box (Kane goal from outside box against Palace, I think they were four Spurs players in front of him)

Sounds simple, i.e. just attack more, but to use Jose's expression, it's a puzzle and the pieces need to work together.

For what it's worth, we have 3 players in double figures, with two more 1 goal away from reaching that figure.

yeah we will end the season with a good chunk of players with double figures which is a very positive sign
I remember everyone saying Chelsea could win the league this season because they had a variety of scorers... whisky forgetting their joint top scorer at the time was a CB!!!
City have a real spread of goals in their attacking set up which has compensated for the lack of a striker (it’s also meant that they had an extra attacker on instead of that striker so their not playing with 10 men). Other that them it’s still the Normal suspects getting the goals
 
over half way through the season our third highest goals scorer had 3 goals - it was nothing to do with Kane & Son doing well it's the fact we had little to no goal threat outside of those 2.

Bergwijn was almost ever present in the front 3 over this period with Ndombele mostly behind in the '10' position - so the 'front 4' was fairly consistent.

It wasn't a problem in Europe/the cup because we mostly played teams way below our level.


it's good that we now appear to have changed things for the better, doesn't mean we have to pretend everything was going well previously.
 
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over half way through the season our third highest goals scorer had 3 goals - it was nothing to do with Kane & Son doing well it's the fact we had little to no goal threat outside of those 2.

Bergwijn was almost ever present in the front 3 over this period with Ndombele mostly behind in the '10' position - so the 'front 4' was fairly consistent.

It wasn't a problem in Europe/the cup because we mostly played teams way below our level.


it's good that we now appear to have changed things for the better, doesn't mean we have to pretend everything was going well previously.
We were top of the league for a month so it wasn’t all bad
But it’s also no coincidence that we have our players fit we look good again
 
We were top of the league for a month so it wasn’t all bad
But it’s also no coincidence that we have our players fit we look good again

it wasn't all bad no but the topic being discussed is about our attacking football. Injuries have helped, as has the change in our approach to games and in game tactics
 
Agreed

but to play these tactics you need the players fit and available

ok sure?

id say we have a fairly deep group of attacking players at the club, not sure im seeing injuries as much of an excuse tbh.

and wrt Son & Kane being relied upon for goals and that being unsustainable - that's exactly how it played out, isn't it? their goals dried up and so did our results
 
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ok sure?

id say we have a fairly deep group of attacking players at the club, not sure im seeing injuries as much of an excuse tbh.

and wrt Son & Kane being relied upon for goals and that being unsustainable - that's exactly how it played out, isn't it? their goals dried up and so did our results
When we played the way that everyone complained about we still had players who were injured or unfit
I mean I’ve heard people say we should started Bale earlier but his injury record which I posted the other day wasnt good
Dele is another ... but we now know what was the issue with him
Lamel had injuries
Moura has some weird period where he was missing around the time we were struggling

And now we have a better quality of supporting cast fit and able to play were scoring again
 
When we played the way that everyone complained about we still had players who were injured or unfit
I mean I’ve heard people say we should started Bale earlier but his injury record which I posted the other day wasnt good
Dele is another ... but we now know what was the issue with him
Lamel had injuries
Moura has some weird period where he was missing around the time we were struggling

And now we have a better quality of supporting cast fit and able to play were scoring again

There is no one answer, it's super easy to say "we just had bricky tactics and made poor selection choices"

The problem is those tactics worked really well against United & City, we had three players (Bale, Ndombele, Lo Celso) coming into the season with injury/fitness concerns, we had bought 7 players who needed to bed in plus all the Covid challenges.

Could Bale have played 3 months earlier? = I don't think so, could he have played a month earlier? = maybe

Would any of us have picked Lucas for a #10 role? = I wouldn't have.

Did we (and do we still have a bit of it) have a tendency to go into a cruise mode after scoring (I think we score the most goals in the PL in first 25 minutes or something like that)? = yes, and that is something we need Jose to work on with the team.

It's likely Son will have the best year of his career, Bale & Kane will have their best year in about 3, not a bad place to be.
 
One thing back to the Kane specifics.

Ally Gold is quite convinced that Kane is stepping up his game due to the "competition" for being top player from Bale.

That would be another great benefit.
 
the specific issues we had to deal with are a bit of a distraction here imo lads, part and parcel of squad management afaic - we can't expect to go through 12+ games of bottom 6 form every time we have a few injuries. what i've taken exception to over the last few pages is the apparent disagreement that there were problems with our attacking play from a tactical point of view and also that Bedford is arguing that a 5,4,2 spread of goalscorers over 6 games is no different to when it was 12,11,3 over 21.
 
All I really care about here is that Jose has realised that we were becoming a bit defensive and predictable and taken some decent steps to change that. Credit has to go to him there, irrespective of what went before. If we continue to play our attacking football then I'll remain happy even if results slip a bit.

7 or 8 games ago I thought that was it it for Jose and that the players were through with him. The Everton Cup game showed me that wasn't the case and I was quite happy after that game (even though we lost) as our approach looked so much better.

As an attacking force we are amongst the best three or four teams in the league. That is our strength so let's play to that. Jose now seems to be looking to do that which is great.

Jose taking Dier out of our first choice team will also help to improve our defence. I know that quite a few on here like him and I think he seems a decent bloke and he always gives his all and he would always get my support if he happens to be playing and I'm in the stadium, but if you watch him closely in games you see very quickly that his defensive work is poor.
 
All I really care about here is that Jose has realised that we were becoming a bit defensive and predictable and taken some decent steps to change that. Credit has to go to him there, irrespective of what went before. If we continue to play our attacking football then I'll remain happy even if results slip a bit.

7 or 8 games ago I thought that was it it for Jose and that the players were through with him. The Everton Cup game showed me that wasn't the case and I was quite happy after that game (even though we lost) as our approach looked so much better.

As an attacking force we are amongst the best three or four teams in the league. That is our strength so let's play to that. Jose now seems to be looking to do that which is great.

Jose taking Dier out of our first choice team will also help to improve our defence. I know that quite a few on here like him and I think he seems a decent bloke and he always gives his all and he would always get my support if he happens to be playing and I'm in the stadium, but if you watch him closely in games you see very quickly that his defensive work is poor.


agree with that pretty much word for word.

continued defensive football lead to his undoing at both Chelsea and United, i think it's his natural reaction to go this way when things 'go wrong' in our case the 3-3 West Ham game and with the two previous examples he couldn't get the team out of that mindset once it was put in place. I saw the same thing happening here - we've managed to get past that now so lets see how we go between now and the end of the season
 
For the guy who doesn't get in top 10/20 lists

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