Harry Kane MBE

[Lilbaz]

Dismiss it as trolling if you like, but that list I posted shows all too painfully that to win trophies you need the extra investment.

Too easy to trot out the excuse about the stadium build when we keep reading that those same costs have been kept completely separate from the footballing side.

Fielding such a weakened team away to strong Championship opponents in the FA Cup 5th rounds was just asking for trouble. But we have been here all too often in the past. The lesson is you need a stronger squad, and that means more investment.

Levy has done wonders for the club and I am a great admirer, but unfortunately he has form for stopping short of going that extra mile when time and again we've needed an extra top player or two to make the difference between going close and getting over the line.

As Lady Bracknell might have said, to be knocked out in the 5th round once may be regarded as unfortunate, to go out at the same stage four years in succession seems like carelessness.

Who said it had been kept seperate from the football side? We've already paid over £600m of the cost off. Which i take it you would have liked spent on players.

What levy said was that the build would not effect the transfer budget. At that time our transfer budget was already low as we had been buying up land for the build.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Who said it had been kept seperate from the football side? We've already paid over £600m of the cost off. Which i take it you would have liked spent on players.

What levy said was that the build would not effect the transfer budget. At that time our transfer budget was already low as we had been buying up land for the build.

Re impacting on the transfer budget, he also changed that position as time went on.

 

[billyiddo]

If Conte gets his players why would he not play them. We can't say for sure how much levy is involved.

It's probably not at the player selection level, but Levy could be approving transfer budgets, player amortisation or cash flow at a more strategic level that impacts what's available to meet immediate team performance needs.

Just my guess. I think there's some sort of impasse between Conte and management. Conte proving a point to Levy perhaps.

Well of course he is

 

[Spur of the moment]

Who said it had been kept seperate from the football side? We've already paid over £600m of the cost off. Which i take it you would have liked spent on players.

What levy said was that the build would not effect the transfer budget. At that time our transfer budget was already low as we had been buying up land for the build.

Re the transfer budget and stadium build thingy, I think that's frankly splitting hairs tbh.

Besides, it misses my point. The thrust of my argument is not so much that we should spend money we haven't got, but rather that it's maybe not such a good idea to appoint serial trophy winners to win us trophies if we are unable to support them with the greater level of spending needed to achieve that aim. I think it is general accepted that both Morenho and Conte have won major trophies with clubs that have spent big on ready-made stars, no?

Just for good measure, allow me to ilustrate the link between spending and trophies even more graphically

Since 2001 when Enic took over the club, the sobering fact is that Spurs have won just one major trophy from more than 80 League, Cup and European competitions entered. Over that same period the Big Five Spenders (ie Man U, Man C, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal) have won no less than 62 domestic and European trophies between them (excludes Super Cups, Charity Shields etc).

I hope we can at least agree that one very obvious explanation is that, for whatever reason, we have not been able to throw the gargantuan sums at it that the Big Five Spenders have generally been able to over this period.

.

 

[Lilbaz]

Re the transfer budget and stadium build thingy, I think that's frankly splitting hairs tbh.

Besides, it misses my point. The thrust of my argument is not so much that we should spend money we haven't got, but rather that it's maybe not such a good idea to appoint serial trophy winners to win us trophies if we are unable to support them with the greater level of spending needed to achieve that aim. I think it is general accepted that both Morenho and Conte have won major trophies with clubs that have spent big on ready-made stars, no?

Just for good measure, allow me to ilustrate the link between spending and trophies even more graphically

Since 2001 when Enic took over the club, the sobering fact is that Spurs have won just one major trophy from more than 80 League, Cup and European competitions entered. Over that same period the Big Five Spenders (ie Man U, Man C, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal) have won no less than 62 domestic and European trophies between them (excludes Super Cups, Charity Shields etc).

I hope we can at least agree that one very obvious explanation is that, for whatever reason, we have not been able to throw the gargantuan sums at it that the Big Five Spenders have generally been able to over this period.

.

Conte net spend:

Tottenham €158m over 2 seasons. €79m a season.
Juve €107m over 3 seasons. €35.6m a season.
Chelsea €89m over 2 seasons. €44.5m a season.

 

[DubSpur]

Re the transfer budget and stadium build thingy, I think that's frankly splitting hairs tbh.

Besides, it misses my point. The thrust of my argument is not so much that we should spend money we haven't got, but rather that it's maybe not such a good idea to appoint serial trophy winners to win us trophies if we are unable to support them with the greater level of spending needed to achieve that aim. I think it is general accepted that both Morenho and Conte have won major trophies with clubs that have spent big on ready-made stars, no?

Just for good measure, allow me to ilustrate the link between spending and trophies even more graphically

Since 2001 when Enic took over the club, the sobering fact is that Spurs have won just one major trophy from more than 80 League, Cup and European competitions entered. Over that same period the Big Five Spenders (ie Man U, Man C, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal) have won no less than 62 domestic and European trophies between them (excludes Super Cups, Charity Shields etc).

I hope we can at least agree that one very obvious explanation is that, for whatever reason, we have not been able to throw the gargantuan sums at it that the Big Five Spenders have generally been able to over this period.

.

It's not that we haven't spent it, since the stadium has opened we have spent it but have bought poorly and wasted money.

 

[Grays_1890]

It's not that we haven't spent it, since the stadium has opened we have spent it but have bought poorly and wasted money.

Absolutely spot on, here are our top three transfers (To highlight the biggest spends and how thats related to success) from recent windows (Left out the last one as jury is out), how many successes in those?

Royal (Recently)
Bentancur
Sissoko
Wanyama

Special mention to Romero who is now a perm and on big money

So in 4 windows, we have 4 and half of our real BIG money spends who have been a success, yes there have been others who on lesser money have done well but there are also the same number not on this list that have not, but this highlights that we have spent but spent poorly. 220m Euros of write off, which then sits on your books or out on loan

I may speak up for the board, but this is one area I can not, we have spent poorly in too many windows which created a legacy which has been hard to transition out of

 

[DTA]

Absolutely spot on, here are our top three transfers (To highlight the biggest spends and how thats related to success) from recent windows (Left out the last one as jury is out), how many successes in those?

Royal (Recently)
Bentancur
Sissoko
Wanyama

Special mention to Romero who is now a perm and on big money

So in 4 windows, we have 4 and half of our real BIG money spends who have been a success, yes there have been others who on lesser money have done well but there are also the same number not on this list that have not, but this highlights that we have spent but spent poorly. 220m Euros of write off, which then sits on your books or out on loan

I may speak up for the board, but this is one area I can not, we have spent poorly in too many windows which created a legacy which has been hard to transition out of


View attachment 15237
View attachment 15233
View attachment 15234
View attachment 15235

I agree we have spent poorly, but how much of that is listening to what the manager wants, which is what fans cry out for.

 

[Grays_1890]

I agree we have spent poorly, but how much of that is listening to what the manager wants, which is what fans cry out for.

I think what the manager wants/fans cry out for are two separate things as many fans cried and bayed for Ndombele and the likes of Porro

Hard to say mate, unless you are behind the scenes, you can only take what managers say themselves, Mourinho was texting Doherty all summer as he was his target, Mendes man also so likely to have got kickbacks from his mate, Conte talks about how they all sit and agree on players, If you read Poch book, he was the main issue with the signings in his day, he would get final sign off and would use his aura and personality index to decide on players

I am a realist and no doubt we have probably missed out on a managers first choice but when they are Dias and Emirates Marketing Project come sniffing what are your chances? The fans cried their eyes out about Dybala but we were they 3rd club on his managers UK tour and he wanted the world to sign so I actually understand the reasons for not getting him for example.

The transfer market doesn't work in a way where clubs like ours identify someone and just go and get them without it being a dogfight, especially when that players wanted. We have been slow at times which has not helped, but you know for certain if we know and want a player someone else wants him and its not really the boards fault that clubs like Chelsea and City have been laudering enough money and been able to cazump us on the like of Willian and Dias

 

[DTA]

he would get final sign off and would use his aura and personality index to decide on players

where the fudge was that with Ndombele?

 

[Grays_1890]

where the fudge was that with Ndombele?

I reckon he used the wrong matrix for the BMI index

 

[Spur of the moment]

Conte net spend:

Tottenham €158m over 2 seasons. €79m a season.
Juve €107m over 3 seasons. €35.6m a season.
Chelsea €89m over 2 seasons. €44.5m a season.

But they already had much bigger squads !!!

Remember we went two windows prior to Poch's last without spending a single penny.

So maybe come back when you've added in the cost of their existing squads. For example I have already shown that Chelsea's spend was substantially greater than ours over the decade a whole.

My argument is not that we don't spend, but that we cannot hope to match the spend of the big boys over the longer term. It's why we too often end up fielding relatively weaker squads in the domestic and non-CL European cups and, I suggest, a big reason why whenever we do manage to go close we ultimately fail to get over the line.


.

 

[Spur of the moment]

It's not that we haven't spent it, since the stadium has opened we have spent it but have bought poorly and wasted money.

Agree we have spent poorly but the difference is the big boys can - and do - go out and spend again when they get it wrong.

 

[Grays_1890]

But they already had much bigger squads !!!

Remember we went two windows prior to Poch's last without spending a single penny.

So maybe come back when you've added in the cost of their existing squads. For example I have already shown that Chelsea's spend was substantially greater than ours over the decade a whole.

My argument is not that we don't spend, but that we cannot hope to match the spend of the big boys over the longer term. It's why we too often end up fielding relatively weaker squads in the domestic and non-CL European cups and, I suggest, a big reason why whenever we do manage to go close we ultimately fail to get over the line.

.

Moving forward we can if the rules are enforced by the league, bar Man United but I won't cry because Man United are a bigger club and always have been, thats just the reality. We have shown that in recent windows that we can start to ramp up the spend and we have

Interestingly, and in part down to the fact they have a lower benchmark in terms of quality, but the recent trend has shown that spending money has lead to as much failure as it has success. Leeds are one of the biggest spenders in recent windows, Everton spent more money than most in the last 10 years, West Ham are marked as one of the biggest spenders over the last 12 months.....The trends for spending for from always point upwards

I would say that strategy shows up as a bigger asset than money, both is perfect

 

[Spur of the moment]

Moving forward we can if the rules are enforced by the league, bar Man United but I won't cry because Man United are a bigger club and always have been, thats just the reality. We have shown that in recent windows that we can start to ramp up the spend and we have

Interestingly, and in part down to the fact they have a lower benchmark in terms of quality, but the recent trend has shown that spending money has lead to as much failure as it has success. Leeds are one of the biggest spenders in recent windows, Everton spent more money than most in the last 10 years, West Ham are marked as one of the biggest spenders over the last 12 months.....The trends for spending for from always point upwards

I would say that strategy shows up as a bigger asset than money, both is perfect

Another point is, teams that win trophies attract the top players. The likes of Everton, Leeds and West Ham may spend big but generally they still sruggle to attract the very best.

 

[Grays_1890]

Another point is, teams that win trophies attract the top players. The likes of Everton, Leeds and West Ham may spend big but generally they still sruggle to attract the very best.

I would suggest they struggle because they are relegation and mid table fodder

"The very best" is abit of a fallacy built on hindsight though. I would say that Emirates Marketing Project and the Chelsea's of the world have done better and signed more up and comings than the very best and done so by out bidding rivals. Haaland is recent exception but neither have gone out and pilfered Europe for the top players from other top clubs, if you go thought Cities signings they are all very good prospects that in reality no one has really heard much of as TOP players week in week out. Even those purchased through England I would say were not top players, Ake, Phillips and Grealish are good but not Bonnuci and Pirlo, De Bruyne was let go by Chelsea and not established...What their finances have allowed them to do though, which is proven in any record you want to look at is to buy multiple players for each area and therefore increase their chances of finding a gem, but its cost them 2bn to get there on transfers alone, Chelsea have just done the same signing up and comings for 600m in one window but if anyone thinks we should be competing there then frankly they are in dreamland

 

[DubSpur]

My argument is not that we don't spend, but that we cannot hope to match the spend of the big boys over the longer term. It's why we too often end up fielding relatively weaker squads in the domestic and non-CL European cups and, I suggest, a big reason why whenever we do manage to go close we ultimately fail to get over the line.

But we are matching (or close to) them since the opening of the stadium (except Chelsea for the last two windows).
It will take another few windows to be really seen as we can't go out and spend the money that Chelsea have in the last two windows (Chelsea will have to cut back after that splash in the next windows).
The reason that we have fielded a weakened team in the domestic cups is Contes refusal to use his squad, do some small rotations in the league and make use of 5 subs. If he did the squad would be fresher and wholesale changes wouldn't be needed in cup games.

 

[Grays_1890]

But we are matching (or close to) them since the opening of the stadium (except Chelsea for the last two windows).
It will take another few windows to be really seen as we can't go out and spend the money that Chelsea have in the last two windows (Chelsea will have to cut back after that splash in the next windows).
The reason that we have fielded a weakened team in the domestic cups is Contes refusal to use his squad, do some small rotations in the league and make use of 5 subs. If he did the squad would be fresher and wholesale changes wouldn't be needed in cup games.

Yep and its interesting how the narratives change, people wanted Richarlison because he was league proven, people wanted depth, people wanted alternatives to Kane to give him a break, you get them, you use them, you lose games of football and the narrative changes again about priorities and were they the managers choice

Footballs a complicated game, never any certainties, things rarely go how you expect (beat City, lose to Sheffield Uniteds second string anyone) it certainly does not go how its written on paper

 

[Spur of the moment]

I would suggest they struggle because they are relegation and mid table fodder

"The very best" is abit of a fallacy built on hindsight though. I would say that Emirates Marketing Project and the Chelsea's of the world have done better and signed more up and comings than the very best and done so by out bidding rivals. Haaland is recent exception but neither have gone out and pilfered Europe for the top players from other top clubs, if you go thought Cities signings they are all very good prospects that in reality no one has really heard much of as TOP players week in week out. Even those purchased through England I would say were not top players, Ake, Phillips and Grealish are good but not Bonnuci and Pirlo, De Bruyne was let go by Chelsea and not established...What their finances have allowed them to do though, which is proven in any record you want to look at is to buy multiple players for each area and therefore increase their chances of finding a gem, but its cost them 2bn to get there on transfers alone, Chelsea have just done the same signing up and comings for 600m in one window but if anyone thinks we should be competing there then frankly they are in dreamland

Some excellent points there. Nevertheless we are still lagging behind City in the spending league table. Over the past decade they have spent roughly twice as much as us and have basically two first team squads.

But like you say, one way or another we are likely going to struggle to match the Big Five Spenders. By the end of the decade their stadiums will all either match or exceed our capacity. On top of that they are able to legitimately monetise their substantially larger fanbases through shirt sales and the like. Hence, even if Enic sells to an Arab state, the playing field may remain uneven for some time to come

Social Media Football League Table

Combined total followers on Facebook, TikTok and Twitter (as at 25/02/2023)

Man U 150m
Chelsea 100m
Liverpool 92.4m
Man C 80.4m
Arsenal 76m
Tottenham 41.7m​

https://www.olbg.com/blogs/social-football-league

 

[Spur of the moment]

But we are matching (or close to) them since the opening of the stadium (except Chelsea for the last two windows).
It will take another few windows to be really seen as we can't go out and spend the money that Chelsea have in the last two windows (Chelsea will have to cut back after that splash in the next windows).
The reason that we have fielded a weakened team in the domestic cups is Contes refusal to use his squad, do some small rotations in the league and make use of 5 subs. If he did the squad would be fresher and wholesale changes wouldn't be needed in cup games.

It's not just Conte's tactics. We have been fielding weaker squads in the cups for decades!