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Giovani Lo Celso

billyiddo said:
Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that he has missed 62 games through injury since signing for us (4 whilst on loan in Spain) this works out to the equivalent of 16.5 games a season
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he's had a couple of bad injuries, pushing the overall average down

1st season 38 games
2nd season 28 games
3rd season 41 games
4th season 29 games
5th season 15 games so far

not the best by any means, but he's hardly Michael Johnson, and there are many players with similar numbers without the narrative

its season 5, 62/5 is 12.4

also worth noting, the two season prior to signing for us he had 40 + appearances
 
Baleforce said:
he's had a couple of bad injuries, pushing the overall average down

1st season 38 games
2nd season 28 games
3rd season 41 games
4th season 29 games
5th season 15 games so far

not the best by any means, but he's hardly Michael Johnson, and there are many players with similar numbers without the narrative

its season 5, 62/5 is 12.4

also worth noting, the two season prior to signing for us he had 40 + appearances
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He doesn’t really do enough to justify keeping him around when you consider his injury record. We could get someone of similar quality who isn’t injured as frequently.
 
If a bid came in for him we should accept. Same as for skipp, sess, gil and hojbjerg, even Solomon. I don't see any bids coming in though. Hardly any teams in europe have any money.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
But that would take a decent chunk of money. Money that could be spent on another position
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If he's not fir and available to play when we need him then we need to make strong decisions. Maddison also has a history of injury problems and this season hasn't been able to return to the level he was at before so ideally the secondary option is someone whose fitness can be relied upon. As much as I like GLC (and you know I do) that isn't him. He's always unavailable when we've really needed him.

Bergvall may well be the serious option for Maddison in which case the any other additions may not need to be expensive for that area + the potential use of Devine or similar.
 
Bishop said:
If he's not fir and available to play when we need him then we need to make strong decisions. Maddison also has a history of injury problems and this season hasn't been able to return to the level he was at before so ideally the secondary option is someone whose fitness can be relied upon. As much as I like GLC (and you know I do) that isn't him. He's always unavailable when we've really needed him.

Bergvall may well be the serious option for Maddison in which case the any other additions may not need to be expensive for that area + the potential use of Devine or similar.
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Kulu can also play there. Divine needs to be looked at in preseason also. Although he'll probably go on loan again.
 
Bishop said:
If he's not fir and available to play when we need him then we need to make strong decisions. Maddison also has a history of injury problems and this season hasn't been able to return to the level he was at before so ideally the secondary option is someone whose fitness can be relied upon. As much as I like GLC (and you know I do) that isn't him. He's always unavailable when we've really needed him.

Bergvall may well be the serious option for Maddison in which case the any other additions may not need to be expensive for that area + the potential use of Devine or similar.
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Kulu may be the option too
As may be Devine or Bergvahl like you sau
Even Bentacur can play there
The issue with Gio is fitness and contract. Neither are positive
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Kulu may be the option too
As may be Devine or Bergvahl like you sau
Even Bentacur can play there
The issue with Gio is fitness and contract. Neither are positive
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Yeah I forgot to mention Kulu and Bentancur who are serious options for those roles as well. I think we are quite well stocked in ball playing CMs tbh and you know that's been my biggest bug bear for years. We finally have a range of good options, next season especially we might truly be able to keep swapping out CMs without seeing any detrimental effects.

Add a top quality DM and I think that frees the midfield to reach its potential even more.
 
Bishop said:
Yeah I forgot to mention Kulu and Bentancur who are serious options for those roles as well. I think we are quite well stocked in ball playing CMs tbh and you know that's been my biggest bug bear for years. We finally have a range of good options, next season especially we might truly be able to keep swapping out CMs without seeing any detrimental effects.

Add a top quality DM and I think that frees the midfield to reach its potential even more.
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The DM issues huge IMO
We have 4 players with 7 or more assists
The next nearest team has 2 at 7 assists.
We’re creating
We’re scoring
We’re conceding quite tamely though
 
Bedfordspurs said:
The DM issues huge IMO
We have 4 players with 7 or more assists
The next nearest team has 2 at 7 assists.
We’re creating
We’re scoring
We’re conceding quite tamely though
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Its the key area for me, I don't think the defence or attack are anywhere near as bad as made out, its that consistent 8/10 weekly ball winner/player in the DM role we need to address. I like Bissouma alot but his drop off from 9/10 to 2/10 is terrible now, so unless he gets that sorted thats the role thats up for grabs for me. Everything starts from that role IMO

The defence can only do as much as they can do if the DM is not protecting them and running the channels to protect the FBs coming inside and you need someone to link the play with quality.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Its the key area for me, I don't think the defence or attack are anywhere near as bad as made out, its that consistent 8/10 weekly ball winner/player in the DM role we need to address. I like Bissouma alot but his drop off from 9/10 to 2/10 is terrible now, so unless he gets that sorted thats the role thats up for grabs for me. Everything starts from that role IMO

The defence can only do as much as they can do if the DM is not protecting them and running the channels to protect the FBs coming inside and you need someone to link the play with quality.
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I have no issue conceding brilliant goals
I have no issue conceding when we have over committed
That’s not how we’re conceding
And it’s not just the DM, it’s general laziness and weakness when defending these situations and that’s with us having IMO outstanding defenders. It’s bloody odd

The Luton goal came from our attack and a poor poor Kulu pass, then a weak son challenge and then Bissouma getting done way too easily. They passed to two unmarked men when we had the numbers

Fulham’s first was a great ball but Romero was just out of line for the offside. But it was avoidable
The second was form a simple throw and played around us
The third a basic set piece

I can go on of course but these are very avoidable
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I have no issue conceding brilliant goals
I have no issue conceding when we have over committed
That’s not how we’re conceding
And it’s not just the DM, it’s general laziness and weakness when defending these situations and that’s with us having IMO outstanding defenders. It’s bloody odd

The Luton goal came from our attack and a poor poor Kulu pass, then a weak son challenge and then Bissouma getting done way too easily. They passed to two unmarked men when we had the numbers

Fulham’s first was a great ball but Romero was just out of line for the offside. But it was avoidable
The second was form a simple throw and played around us
The third a basic set piece

I can go on of course but these are very avoidable
Click to expand...

I agree with all of that, just feel Bissoumas in and out nature, including what seems a lazy streak l....see Sat goal is harming any forward progress.
 
Baleforce said:
he's had a couple of bad injuries, pushing the overall average down

1st season 38 games
2nd season 28 games
3rd season 41 games
4th season 29 games
5th season 15 games so far

not the best by any means, but he's hardly Michael Johnson, and there are many players with similar numbers without the narrative

its season 5, 62/5 is 12.4

also worth noting, the two season prior to signing for us he had 40 + appearances
Click to expand...

His 40+ seasons in Spain/France and then 4 games missed while on loan in Spain is very much part of the problem.

58 games missed for us in 3.5 seasons (well it will be 3.5 come the end of this season...) is how you get to 16.5

It's an appalling record and shows someone that either can't hack the pace of training/the football over here or just doesn't want to.
 
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Bishop said:
If he's not fir and available to play when we need him then we need to make strong decisions. Maddison also has a history of injury problems and this season hasn't been able to return to the level he was at before so ideally the secondary option is someone whose fitness can be relied upon. As much as I like GLC (and you know I do) that isn't him. He's always unavailable when we've really needed him.

Bergvall may well be the serious option for Maddison in which case the any other additions may not need to be expensive for that area + the potential use of Devine or similar.
Click to expand...
Bergvall isn't a playmaker. He's more like a Sarr than a Maddison.
 
billyiddo said:
His 40+ seasons in Spain/France and then 4 games missed while on loan in Spain is very much part of the problem.

58 games missed for us in 3.5 seasons (well it will be 3.5 come the end of this season...) is how you get to 16.5

It's an appalling record and shows someone that either can't hack the pace of training/the football over here or just doesn't want to.
Click to expand...

Or wasn't wanted by certain managers ...

- I personally doubt he stays beyond this season
- But, like PEH, I think he could/should have a significant part to play in last 10 games.

On form, his tempo and work rate, he should start and I don't think it's the worst message to Maddison that his spot in side isn't a right, he needs to earn it
 
Bishop said:
I like GLC but yeah, if he's not gonna get games even when Maddison is stinking up the place there is no reason to keep jim beyond the summer imo.

Fresh start for him and a new face and fresh start us.
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Yeah
But you do have to poll at Ange and ask what he is seeing with Maddison?
He has been toilet since his return and that’s a trait he had at Lestah too… post injury form dropping

Issue is he always gets a big injury every season

Lo celso gives us a tempo to the play that Maddison would if he would pass quicker
 
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