Frank Give him time or get rid?

[veryoldspur]

I think the latter, we played really well in patches and should have scored another.

Both goals (again) came from individual mistakes rather than Burnley attacking something in our system.

We were by far the better team.

Indeed we were, and if we didn't have the injuries we have. and signed players in the positions we need, then I am sure we would have won. However, what we need to ask ourselves is even with the players we have at our disposal should we be doing better, and should we have got more than 3 points from the last 5 games that arguably we should have one, and I think we all know the answer. It's obvious Frank isn't a good fit for Spurs, but what do we do if he is acked?

 

[braineclipse]

One question I’d ask of those who clearly see an uplift without Frank: how do you know we will improve and not get worse with a new manager?

And which available manager do you think we could attract and would improve us with no preseason?

I’d swap Frank for Alonso, but would he come to us? Maybe in the summer if other big clubs aren’t interested.

We can't know. That's the situation we're in. Just like we can't know if we'll improve, stay at the same or get worse under Frank.

There being no obvious available candidate and the difficulties with regards to timing (no preseason, tough fixture list, two games a week) may be the reason Frank is still in the job.

Frank has shown himself to be a good manager in the right circumstances, like almost all managers at this level.

To me it sometimes reaches a point where someone just have to go. We couldn't know we would improve when we sacked Conte, Mourinho, Pochettino etc. I'm not saying we're at that point now. But to me there comes a time when a manager just has to go, things have soured sufficiently, the circumstances are such that even though they are a good/great/whatever manager they're unable to do good work. Not saying we're at that point now, but some signs of us heading in that direction at the very least.

 

[El Dante]

One question I’d ask of those who clearly see an uplift without Frank: how do you know we will improve and not get worse with a new manager?

And which available manager do you think we could attract and would improve us with no preseason?

I’d swap Frank for Alonso, but would he come to us? Maybe in the summer if other big clubs aren’t interested.

There are few guarantees in life. I can’t know that we will improve with a new manager. It seems highly likely to me that we will but I can’t know it.

But I know that our form under Thomas Frank is completely unacceptable. Three wins in fourteen league matches. Abject, boring displays all too regularly. Supporters turning up at the stadium in lower numbers and too many of those that do resort to booing due to what they’ve had to spend out to watch.

Thomas Frank is definitely not a successful fit for us as manager. We can’t knowing that just continue with him.

As for which available manager, that isn’t my place to know or decide that. I know which managers I like but who knows if they are available or would want to join. But I feel confident that managers have had contact with us through third party agents etc to let us know that they’d be available for the role.

As you have said, Alonso is my number one choice BUT it seems doubtful that he would want to join. Unless he sees the project as a challenge and sees the potential rather than the actual. The owners and board need to step it up. Offer significant resources and completely back the next manager.

I think our January transfer activity has been awful. I’m not against Conor Gallagher or Souza but we needed a lot more. It makes me question whether the owners haven’t backed Thomas Frank fully as they know he won’t be around much longer so are saving the financial resources for the summer and hopefully to back his replacement.

 

[paxtonwolf]

There are few guarantees in life. I can’t know that we will improve with a new manager. It seems highly likely to me that we will but I can’t know it.

But I know that our form under Thomas Frank is completely unacceptable. Three wins in fourteen league matches. Abject, boring displays all too regularly. Supporters turning up at the stadium in lower numbers and too many of those that do resort to booing due to what they’ve had to spend out to watch.

Thomas Frank is definitely not a successful fit for us as manager. We can’t knowing that just continue with him.

As for which available manager, that isn’t my place to know or decide that. I know which managers I like but who knows if they are available or would want to join. But I feel confident that managers have had contact with us through third party agents etc to let us know that they’d be available for the role.

As you have said, Alonso is my number one choice BUT it seems doubtful that he would want to join. Unless he sees the project as a challenge and sees the potential rather than the actual. The owners and board need to step it up. Offer significant resources and completely back the next manager.

I think our January transfer activity has been awful. I’m not against Conor Gallagher or Souza but we needed a lot more. It makes me question whether the owners haven’t backed Thomas Frank fully as they know he won’t be around much longer so are saving the financial resources for the summer and hopefully to back his replacement.

I think you are correct here and the longer the month goes on, the more that is looking the likely scenario, This time next week the window is shut and Jim White is back in his box

I am probably way off the truth, but, I think Souza is a Board signing for profit in the long run, not a playing squad enhancement. It would nit surprise if he is loan by next Saturday night.
Gallagher was Pochettinos captain at Chelsea (Could be putting 2+2 together and getting 6 here but...) I have a feeling a deal with MP is already rubberstamped for the summer after WC. Gallagher has been 'pre-signed' for him as a potential vice-captain role here too. 5 months playing time to get back up to speed ready for next season
As mentioned previously. I would love it if we try to prize Kane back from Bayern in Summer. (As another sweetener for MP) He will have had 3 seasons there, and by June should have picked up 2 League winners medals and maybe a German Cup medal too.

As I say, I could be way off the mark...I usually am

 

[El Dante]

I think you are correct here and the longer the month goes on, the more that is looking the likely scenario, This time next week the window is shut and Jim White is back in his box

I am probably way off the truth, but, I think Souza is a Board signing for profit in the long run, not a playing squad enhancement. It would nit surprise if he is loan by next Saturday night.
Gallagher was Pochettinos captain at Chelsea (Could be putting 2+2 together and getting 6 here but...) I have a feeling a deal with MP is already rubberstamped for the summer after WC. Gallagher has been 'pre-signed' for him as a potential vice-captain role here too. 5 months playing time to get back up to speed ready for next season
As mentioned previously. I would love it if we try to prize Kane back from Bayern in Summer. (As another sweetener for MP) He will have had 3 seasons there, and by June should have picked up 2 League winners medals and maybe a German Cup medal too.

As I say, I could be way off the mark...I usually am

I too thought that about Gallagher and Pochettino. It seems a very specific signing. Gallagher leaving Chelsea appeared to be one of the reasons Pochettino left Chelsea. But it could just be coincidence.

I do think the board will see Pochettino as a way to appease large sections of supporters too. Not everyone wants him to return, or thinks it would be a good idea. But enough want that magical story with Pochettino to reach a successful ending that if he wants to return, and would be available then it seems like an easy go to which is how things seem to be done at our club.

 

[Mikey10]

I think you are correct here and the longer the month goes on, the more that is looking the likely scenario, This time next week the window is shut and Jim White is back in his box

I am probably way off the truth, but, I think Souza is a Board signing for profit in the long run, not a playing squad enhancement. It would nit surprise if he is loan by next Saturday night.
Gallagher was Pochettinos captain at Chelsea (Could be putting 2+2 together and getting 6 here but...) I have a feeling a deal with MP is already rubberstamped for the summer after WC. Gallagher has been 'pre-signed' for him as a potential vice-captain role here too. 5 months playing time to get back up to speed ready for next season
As mentioned previously. I would love it if we try to prize Kane back from Bayern in Summer. (As another sweetener for MP) He will have had 3 seasons there, and by June should have picked up 2 League winners medals and maybe a German Cup medal too.

As I say, I could be way off the mark...I usually am

It could be seen as a convenient shield for the board to hide behind (again).

 

[Gutter Boy]

I’m amazed and disappointed that near half of people who voted here think that Thomas Frank should stay until the summer. What is it that these people have seen?

Maybe they just switched to going to Bluewater with their wives instead of watching games, and havent had the care to come back and adjust their vote?

 

[SpurMeUp]

We can't know. That's the situation we're in. Just like we can't know if we'll improve, stay at the same or get worse under Frank.

No but we can an informed decision.

There being no obvious available candidate and the difficulties with regards to timing (no preseason, tough fixture list, two games a week) may be the reason Frank is still in the job.

Frank has shown himself to be a good manager in the right circumstances, like almost all managers at this level.

To me it sometimes reaches a point where someone just have to go. We couldn't know we would improve when we sacked Conte, Mourinho, Pochettino etc. I'm not saying we're at that point now. But to me there comes a time when a manager just has to go, things have soured sufficiently, the circumstances are such that even though they are a good/great/whatever manager they're unable to do good work. Not saying we're at that point now, but some signs of us heading in that direction at the very least.

Yes I agree it is about a fresh face that doesn’t carry all the baggage with fans not backing him. Change for changes sake. And it can work. But it needs to be a big personality to carry it off.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

It could be seen as a convenient shield for the board to hide behind (again).

Ambitions in the market, when we seems to be heading for profit in this window............

 

[SpurMeUp]

There are few guarantees in life. I can’t know that we will improve with a new manager. It seems highly likely to me that we will but I can’t know it.

But I know that our form under Thomas Frank is completely unacceptable. Three wins in fourteen league matches. Abject, boring displays all too regularly. Supporters turning up at the stadium in lower numbers and too many of those that do resort to booing due to what they’ve had to spend out to watch.

Thomas Frank is definitely not a successful fit for us as manager. We can’t knowing that just continue with him.

As for which available manager, that isn’t my place to know or decide that. I know which managers I like but who knows if they are available or would want to join. But I feel confident that managers have had contact with us through third party agents etc to let us know that they’d be available for the role.

As you have said, Alonso is my number one choice BUT it seems doubtful that he would want to join. Unless he sees the project as a challenge and sees the potential rather than the actual. The owners and board need to step it up. Offer significant resources and completely back the next manager.

I think our January transfer activity has been awful. I’m not against Conor Gallagher or Souza but we needed a lot more. It makes me question whether the owners haven’t backed Thomas Frank fully as they know he won’t be around much longer so are saving the financial resources for the summer and hopefully to back his replacement.

We are up on last years form and points. No one thinks that is good enough, but can you factor in the lack of attacking talent at any managers disposal? We rely on defenders to score. Will a new manager somehow get second string attackers playing better? If you watch performances Frank has got Tel, Odobert and Spence playing better but barely scoring. Still you can see some uplift.

Did you watch the last two games? I didn’t think we were boring - it was more like Ange-ball. Performances have improved results haven’t is probably fair to say?

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Still not gone? Good grief, put us and him out of our miseries!

 

[Gutter Boy]

Still not gone? Good grief, put us and him out of our miseries!

Hopefully its coming. They usually at least let the guy fly home from away games before doing the deed. Hopefully we'll hear something this afternoon or tonight

 

[Baleforce]

Would be utter madness to fire him on the back of the last 5/6 performances.

We’ve been the better team in all of them.

If we get rid after barely 6 months that’s insanity.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Would be utter madness to fire him on the back of the last 5/6 performances.

We’ve been the better team in all of them.

If we get rid after barely 6 months that’s insanity.

The league is so bad now in quality that its levelled out in quality of team, Bournemouth went on a 11 game without a game run (went under the radar that with his fans) yet they can beat last years Champions. This isn't the 90s where you go away to Oldham and walk to a 3 nill win, its hyper competitive even with it being equally crap to watch across the board.

The next manager will have more bad days than good in their first year or that I am certain, I suspect people don't have the stomach for it despite convincing themselves on here they would be "if we see a pattern". I put that with the "I would take finishing midtable every year for a trophy" noncense

 

[Raziel]

I'd also love to know how people who want Frank gone this week would navigate the rest of the season and then secure a long term manager. Same appointment or do we do it in 2 hits? Who exactly can do this or these roles?

It's an interesting point of inflexion for the club.......AGAIN !!!

Depends on who the long term target is, and the answer shows how bad delaying firing Frank has been

- If it's Xabi, we should have gone in the day after he was fired, offered him a budget for both Jan and Summer with commitment to certain targets (yes, player needs to come)
- If it's Poch, or another WC manager, we knew we needed an interim
- Carrick was a good option out of the available interims, it's actually been reported we looked at him but again the lack of decisiveness has cost us.
- If interim or permanent, January was really the month to give them, it was the best opportunity to get a run of results, save the season.
- The fans don't need to find these options, that is literally the job of Lange and Vinai. Carrick was obvious, Mason is around, Robbie Keane has a 60% win rate, yes he's at a club now, but for the money and exposure I'm sure he'd think about it.

The most important thing is there needs to be a reset of what is acceptable, for 20 years the team and manager knew if you were out of European spots, you were gone, we are now in our 2nd season of being in bottom half of table with seemingly no consequence.

 

[DubSpur]

Forest winning, definitely getting dragged into it.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Forest winning, definitely getting dragged into it.

It’s fine, nothing to worry about, Frank will turn it around, after all we were slightly better than Burnley yesterday….

 

[Dicko]

Prof:

An unsurprising snippet from Galahad:

VL and VV are not in agreement on retaining TF until the end of the season. The problem is that the classic dynamic is in effect where a new ‘boss’ wants to be seen as different from the old boss. The perception of DL is that he changed managers far too frequently, so VL is torn between listening to the counsel of VV (which is to show patience with TF, at least until the end of the season, when more and better options will be available) and going with her instinct, which was to move on from TF weeks ago. An interesting challenge/opportunity for our new leaders.

 

[lurker of old]

It makes me question whether the owners haven’t backed Thomas Frank fully as they know he won’t be around much longer so are saving the financial resources for the summer and hopefully to back his replacement.
That makes no sense..."let's set this manager up to fail, and then see who we attract in the summer". We needed a good left sided midfielder at the start of the season. We still need one. Gallagher is a decent player but we could do with at least one attacking (ie goal scoring) player of equal status.