ENIC

[Bishop]

But those players were also plying their trade in Europe and you could watch them weekly. Its not some romantic notion to think that players were better or more technical/better on the eye. I hate to say it, but look at just one side like Arsenal in the 90s/00s. Henry, Dennis B, Pires, Viera, Campbell, Gilberto etc, thats just one side, add to that Man United of that time.............Now look across the entire PL and you would struggle to find a handful of players in the whole league that would hold a light to them (GHod I have just been sick).

Barce, Real, Betis, Depor, Valencia were full to the brim with stars, Djalminha picking his side up to win the league, Mendieta at Valencia in what was a generational side that should have won more, they were side that were an absolute joy to watch.

Italy was unbelievably stacked with talent, beyond talent and the PL had an overspill of players that would make me want to watch a game of football regardless.

Its all sanitised athletics with near on every side set up to play the same

The talent and individually was undoubtedly better, it's not nostalgia. The level of skill was just far superior. An example is Saka. I look at him and think very good player, but is he world class? If that definition is top 5 player in their position then he probably is, but if it's a standard (and that's how judge) then no. He's below that because how can I call Saka World Class when I watched the likes of Laudrup, Figo, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Hagi etc?

The base standard in the PL is higher than ever but that's largely because there are more technically decent foreign players but the heights are much lower and the other leagues are weaker quality wise than they've ever been.

 

[Bishop]

Haaland, KDB, Silva, Rodri, Salah, Vdv, all as good if not better than those Arsenal players probably with the exception of Henry. The league is full of top quality players, they're more spread out between clubs. The standard overall is higher now. Yes they're more athletic now but they also have the technical ability.

Bit in the same rough time period as Arsenal having those players United had Beckham, Giggs, Scholes, Van Nis, Keane, Irwin. Chelsea has Guilt, Zola, Hasaibaink etc. Pool had Fowler, Owen, Mcmanan, McAllister etc. Leeds had Kewell and Viduka etc. Hell even we had Ginola who would be best player in this current team instantly.

There was just more individual quality across all leagues. The PL wasn't even the 2nd strongest at that point and the quality and breadth of the best players was higher than now.

 

[Grays_1890]

Rodri great for what he does and not as good as Veira and Keane for all round game?? You're having a laugh. He's the closest player to Busquets around and up there with Veira and Keane. And that's picking probably the two top midfielders in PL history. What about the thousands of others. If you think Rodri isn't a top all round player I think I'll leave it at that. Anyway Enic...

I think Rodri is a very very good player....I don't rate him as highly as Keane and Viera....that's hardly an earth shattering view and doesn't mean I don't think he is a top player. I don't think he is as good as Makele, Seedorf, Gerrard, Pirlo or Lampard either....doesn't make him bad.

There is also not Thousands of Rodri level either, let alone those mentioned on here. Which is part of my point.

Anyway like yiu say....Enic.

 

[Grays_1890]

The talent and individually was unfortunately better, it's not nostalgia. The level of flat was just far superior. An example is Saka. I look at him and think very good player, but is he world class? If that definition is top 5 player in their position then he probably is, but if it's a standard (and that's how judge) then no. He's below that because how can I call Saka World Class when I watched the likes of Laudrup, Figo, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Hagi etc?

The base standard in the PL is higher than ever but that's largely because there are more technically decent foreign players but the heights are much lower and the other leagues are weaker quality wise than they've ever been.

Exactly that, the bottoms gone up (mainly down to fitness and professionalism) but the tops dropped and there is much less of the top quality.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Exactly that, the bottoms gone up (mainly down to fitness and professionalism) but the tops dropped and there is much less of the top quality.

The top has probably dropped due to 'systems football '. And probably the want or space for individuals.

 

[Grays_1890]

The top has probably dropped due to 'systems football '. And probably the want or space for individuals.

I don't disagree there.

Everyone is trying to play Pep style from top to bottom, hence IMO we see less strikers in the game now, its the vogue way to play, with the right components its a decent enough brand of football, but I wouldn't look at Foden, given his ability, same with Grealish and say they are playing flair, no care football to what their ability likely would pull off. Its more efficient now and both are seemingly looking less Pep players as times gone on, which is saying something. 20 years ago I would have been front and centre to watch Foden play with his ability, now, despite being very very good, its not exciting use of his ability. Maybe thats just a taste thing

 

[Muttley]

Proving your point?? The dark arts have been reduced and are only a very small part of the game now. Until the game is refed by an all seeing AI then it's not going to be completely stamped out. The dark arts was worse in years gone by, so how on earth is strong and competent officiating needed for skills to become prevalent again when the officiating used to be worse?

Yeah, point is a bad word. It's more of a theory about that link between the two.

Here's what I see:
- more fouls in the game (based on the laws) than actually given
- constant professional fouls that break up the rhythm of the game. Never punished with a yellow
- a completely different interpretation of a yellow in the second half compared to the first, even though nobody changes the actual laws at half time
- a high count of yellow cards (based on the laws) not given, changing the advantage of games
- barely any yellows given for petulant acts and no referees giving players a lecture anymore

I reckon even if you addressed these 5 points, you'd see manager and player behavioural change that would allow more skill to prevail in the game. Coming back to Craig_J's original point, I also find football dull nowadays. I just think officiating is one of the factors that makes it that way.

I also feel that companies like Sky refocusing on football being the product would help as well. It would be great to hear the half time commentary talking about all the skills and the football moments of the 1st half, rather than the inevitable VAR and the decision controversies. Tipping the balance back the other way would make it more palatable.

 

[Bullet]

Yeah, point is a bad word. It's more of a theory about that link between the two.

Here's what I see:
- more fouls in the game (based on the laws) than actually given
- constant professional fouls that break up the rhythm of the game. Never punished with a yellow
- a completely different interpretation of a yellow in the second half compared to the first, even though nobody changes the actual laws at half time
- a high count of yellow cards (based on the laws) not given, changing the advantage of games
- barely any yellows given for petulant acts and no referees giving players a lecture anymore

I reckon even if you addressed these 5 points, you'd see manager and player behavioural change that would allow more skill to prevail in the game. Coming back to Craig_J's original point, I also find football dull nowadays. I just think officiating is one of the factors that makes it that way.

I also feel that companies like Sky refocusing on football being the product would help as well. It would be great to hear the half time commentary talking about all the skills and the football moments of the 1st half, rather than the inevitable VAR and the decision controversies. Tipping the balance back the other way would make it more palatable.

@DubSpur is right; 30 odd years ago the flair players would get absolutely smashed in the air, and the pitch was mud, every player would haul someone back with no booking, or stand on their Achilles heel to stop a move, every player would stand in the way of a freekick and kick the ball 20 yards away, the goalie would just fall on the ball and lie there, and don't get me started on Liverpool's heroic dominance of the 80s via just kicking the ball back to the keeper to pick up.
Each of these things has been slowly eradicated by the rules and officials; far fewer crunching challenges, proper penalties for cheating, VAR catching cheats, reds and yellows for small things like pulling a player back or tripping them within a goal scoring chance, no backpass rule, the 8 second rule for keepers, all of these things have made the game MUCH better than it used to be.


You lot are just reminiscing with rose tinted glasses, and remembering highlights rather than full games. A lot of games were incredibly boring back then.

 

[Grays_1890]

You lot are just reminiscing with rose tinted glasses, and remembering highlights rather than full games. A lot of games were incredibly boring back then.

Na, more flair, more acceptance of people trying things and sometimes failing, people taking chance like long range efforts (something that nearly absolutely eradicated from the game)...........replaced by almost carbon copy football of get it wide, overload the box and look for tap ins.........strive for perfection which is mirrored by poorly implemented VAR which is another strive for perfection but works against the excitement of the game.

 

[Bullet]

Nonsense, here are loads from the last 6 or 7 seasons

 

[Grays_1890]

Nonsense, here are loads from the last 6 or 7 seasons

BBC did a piece on it, nearly half as many chances from long range taken on, something like 30/40% less goals from long range over the course of 20 years......would have to dig it out.

At the end of the day, I ain't lying about being bored of most of that I watch, thats nothing to do with rose tinted glasses, I just find it sanitised, robotic, over coached boredom most of the time. And that was before even trying to watch us play in the league last season hahaa

 

[Bishop]

@DubSpur is right; 30 odd years ago the flair players would get absolutely smashed in the air, and the pitch was mud, every player would haul someone back with no booking, or stand on their Achilles heel to stop a move, every player would stand in the way of a freekick and kick the ball 20 yards away, the goalie would just fall on the ball and lie there, and don't get me started on Liverpool's heroic dominance of the 80s via just kicking the ball back to the keeper to pick up.
Each of these things has been slowly eradicated by the rules and officials; far fewer crunching challenges, proper penalties for cheating, VAR catching cheats, reds and yellows for small things like pulling a player back or tripping them within a goal scoring chance, no backpass rule, the 8 second rule for keepers, all of these things have made the game MUCH better than it used to be.


You lot are just reminiscing with rose tinted glasses, and remembering highlights rather than full games. A lot of games were incredibly boring back then.

A lot of games are incredibly boring now. There have always been boring and entertaining games. Football is no more entertaining in general now. I'd argue that generally the overall quality feels lower in the last 5-7 years that ever. Again if your focus is just the PL then maybe from that perspective it's better but across Europe it definitely isn't.