We have no great players as it stands. Ginola had gaps to his game for sure, but realistically right now in this side at least in the attacking aspect who competes with him? I don't see anyone close tbh now that Son has declined.
Son and Kulu both significantly better than Ginola. Johnson certainly far more effective. Ginola didn't play to team instructions and didn't defend his opposite number. He went on some lovely mazy dribbles and scored a few worldies. I loved watching him. However, the top teams didn't want him because he wasn't actually particularly effective. He played 100 PL games for Spurs and scored only 13 goals. His overall PL record was 195 games played, 22 goals scored. A goal every 8.5 games, for a player that did no defending at all.
I think there could be a correlation though.
We are going to have to agree to disagree because I don't rate players on statistical returns, stats are useful but they often lack context. Johnson's stats look decent but he contributed nothing outside of finishing a particular type of chance to the team s overall hindrance, he's a poor footballer and someone whom if we tried to sell none of the top 6 teams would even consider him, I'd be surprised tbh if even a top 8 would consider dropping 60m on him. With regards to his stats Luis Figo never had a single season goal scoring wise that matched Johnson last season yet I know which player I would take all day and every single day. Would you also take Johnson over him due to his better goals record?
I'm kind of conflicted, as I agree with both of you. But Ginola was the shining light during a terrible period, and let's not forget he was voted Premier League Player of the Year by the players - that is quite some feat for anyone, but playing in a team as rubbish as ours doubly so.We are going to have to agree to disagree because I don't rate players on statistical returns, stats are useful but they often lack context. Johnson's stats look decent but he contributed nothing outside of finishing a particular type of chance to the team s overall hindrance, he's a poor footballer and someone whom if we tried to sell none of the top 6 teams would even consider him, I'd be surprised tbh if even a top 8 would consider dropping 60m on him. With regards to his stats Luis Figo never had a single season goal scoring wise that matched Johnson last season yet I know which player I would take all day and every single day. Would you also take Johnson over him due to his better goals record?
With Ginola talking about his goal numbers in comparison to today is a little disingenuous. He played as a winger in the days when they were expected to create far more than to score. With his skillset, in today's game he would play as a LWF and be rather effective I think. You can rate Johnson if you wish, but I just value overall contribution, effectiveness and participation more than simply finishing off a chance.
As I said.... Great to watch, but far from a great player. A goal every 8.5 games is an incredibly poor return for a player that refuses to defend.
It's not that I particularly rate Johnson. I think he is alright, though sure I absolutely rate him as being a lot better than you give him credit for (always find it weird when people want to discount certain types of goals?... really strange?)We are going to have to agree to disagree because I don't rate players on statistical returns, stats are useful but they often lack context. Johnson's stats look decent but he contributed nothing outside of finishing a particular type of chance to the team s overall hindrance, he's a poor footballer and someone whom if we tried to sell none of the top 6 teams would even consider him, I'd be surprised tbh if even a top 8 would consider dropping 60m on him. With regards to his stats Luis Figo never had a single season goal scoring wise that matched Johnson last season yet I know which player I would take all day and every single day. Would you also take Johnson over him due to his better goals record?
With Ginola talking about his goal numbers in comparison to today is a little disingenuous. He played as a winger in the days when they were expected to create far more than to score. With his skillset, in today's game he would play as a LWF and be rather effective I think. You can rate Johnson if you wish, but I just value overall contribution, effectiveness and participation more than simply finishing off a chance.
Like I said, goals and assists is one thing - what about chances created? Almost all matches I watched Ginola he was double marked, and he was a traditional winger who hugged the touchline for the most part. So it doesn't surprise me most of those named got more goals/assists but that stat is far from the whole story. Poyet/Huckerby/Guppy etc were not as good a player as Ginola and I will not hear otherwise
....I think Poyet was a better player than Ginola, not as easy on the eye but I think he was more effective. I agree on the other two though. I don't really remember Ginola being 'double marked', though I do remember him waiting on the touchline for somebody to pass him the ball (I don't remember the opposition parking two players out there to mark him).Like I said, goals and assists is one thing - what about chances created? Almost all matches I watched Ginola he was double marked, and he was a traditional winger who hugged the touchline for the most part. So it doesn't surprise me most of those named got more goals/assists but that stat is far from the whole story. Poyet/Huckerby/Guppy etc were not as good a player as Ginola and I will not hear otherwise
Its not that I'm discrediting his goals it's just that he only scored a particular type of system goal. There isn't a variety to the goals, which largely supports my view that the goals he scored are a product of the system Ange played moreso than any individual brilliance from him. Then you add all the things he doesn't do or is incapable of doing and I don't believe it's worth the tradeoff.
I disagree. Arsenal aren't beating 94 AC Milan or 96 Juventus. You can around all you want if they have faaar better ball players you won't touch the ball and they did. 2025 PSG or Liverpool aren't getting a touch Vs 09 Barca either. Fitness levels may have improved but technique has not.
Same year United did the treble. No way in the world he was better than half that team. Probably more to do with split votes, and ABU.
How would the split votes work? Surely the Utd players Keane, Scholes, Rio, whoever.. would just take all the votes between them and Ginola wouldn’t get any if he wasn’t as good that year?
We do have assists from Ginola's era. I have posted them in the combined G&A numbers (which are lower than Johnson's, Kulu's, Son's and Maddison's).
