Dele Alli

[Grays_1890]

Not just the flicks but ball loss of possession too. He makes poor risk/return decisions. Poch spoiled Dele having Dembele, Wantama and to a certain extent Erikssen setting the stage for the Dele Alli show.

Sent from my SM-T865 using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

As does Moura and Lamela and Doherty and Aurier and and and

All about consistency in view though, Aurier although a much improved player gave a brain dead pen at the pivotal time at the weekend and he was defended.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I watched an old interview recently with Fergie talking about Ronaldo and how they always knew he had unbelievable talent, but Ronaldo improved his decision making which was a catalyst to him becoming the player he is now, that and his ruthless single-mindedness. Alli hasn’t improved in this area enough. He doesn’t know when to keep things simple and when to try something extravagant. Decision making is a fundamental component of being a world class footballer or even just a good footballer. Regardless of all the external factors around him, other players being off form, managers not rating him, Alli hasn’t developed like Son has for example. Son is undoubtedly a better footballer than he was 3 years ago. He’s a better finisher, he’s more creative, he’s unselfish when he needs to be. I certainly agree Mourinho is singling him out unfairly and I would like to see him get a run of games but he needs improve his own and quickly.

 

[Grays_1890]

I watched an old interview recently with Fergie talking about Ronaldo and how they always knew he had unbelievable talent, but Ronaldo improved his decision making which was a catalyst to him becoming the player he is now, that and his ruthless single-mindedness. Alli hasn’t improved in this area enough. He doesn’t know when to keep things simple and when to try something extravagant. Decision making is a fundamental component of being a world class footballer or even just a good footballer. Regardless of all the external factors around him, other players being off form, managers not rating him, Alli hasn’t developed like Son has for example. Son is undoubtedly a better footballer than he was 3 years ago. He’s a better finisher, he’s more creative, he’s unselfish when he needs to be. I certainly agree Mourinho is singling him out unfairly and I would like to see him get a run of games but he needs improve his own and quickly.

I agree with that but show consistency, Moura tried to kick the ball past someone yesterday and run past like he was in the play ground, he kicked it straight at the defenders foot, he loses the ball ALOT more than Alli and does not have the output Alli does to compensate, and I get he works hard but I am not sure even that compensates enough for Alli to be lambasted and Moura to play a huge portion of minutes.

With Alli like he proved earlier in season with that delicious turn for the pen in Europe, his game is about the risks, all players like him take the risks and like I say it does not come off 100%.

I agree on Son but he also has explosive pace that Alli does not have, and is using that, which is his strength as a key exponent. Allis key skill is his flair, you change that and he is not the same player.

Ultimately Jose wants robots that do it when he wants them to, which is cool, he can do that, but its going to mean a total overhaul of personnel to do that

 

[harr1984]

Those that keep using Moura, the difference is when he loses the ball it tends to be in an attacking position inside or just outside the defenders penalty box - that is an acceptable area to lose the ball trying to make something happen when our defence has sufficient time to reorganise. Dele lost the ball trying to do a flick just inside our own half, albeit Stoke did go back before going forward so our defence definitely should have done better too....

 

[billyiddo]

Those that keep using Moura, the difference is when he loses the ball it tends to be in an attacking position inside or just outside the defenders pelanty box - that is an acceptable area to lose the ball trying to make something happen when our defence has sufficient time to reorganise. Dele lost the ball trying to do a flick just inside our own half, albeit Stoke did go back before going forward so our defence definitely should have done better too....

The xg chance of Stoke scoring from that position was minute at best and there was plenty of opportunity for the team/defense to step in and do their job.

It was a totally disproportionate response to the action and shows where his head is at on this subject.

Edit: like i said in a previous post you could understand if it's something that puts him in doubt for big/tight games for Mourinho due to the tactics we play but for the majority of games where we should be on the front foot to worry so much about a loss of possession in the middle of the pitch

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The xg chance of Stoke scoring from that position was minute at best and there was plenty of opportunity for the team/defense to step in and do their job.

It was a totally disproportionate response to the action and shows where his head is at on this subject.

It would be 0
I mean they went backwards from there with 17 more touches
If Jose is gonna do that he now has to look at every goal to see the trigger for the turnover of possession and single out that player

 

[DeanoAustin]

Those that keep using Moura, the difference is when he loses the ball it tends to be in an attacking position inside or just outside the defenders pelanty box - that is an acceptable area to lose the ball trying to make something happen when our defence has sufficient time to reorganise. Dele lost the ball trying to do a flick just inside our own half, albeit Stoke did go back before going forward so our defence definitely should have done better too....

Maybe I'm misremembering but didn't Moura lose the ball around the halfway line on a dribble on Sunday and Leicester scored from it?

Didn't Kane also throw the ball straight to them in our half and set up an attack they nearly scored from.

Neither player was publicly shamed the way Dele was.

 

[billyiddo]

It would be 0
I mean they went backwards from there with 17 more touches
If Jose is gonna do that he now has to look at every goal to see the trigger for the turnover of possession and single out that player

Not just when a goal is conceded but ANY loss of possession with a similar chance of our opponents scoring from.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Maybe I'm misremembering but didn't Moura lose the ball around the halfway line on a dribble on Sunday and Leicester scored from it?

Didn't Kane also throw the ball straight to them in our half and set up an attack they nearly scored from.

Neither player was publicly shamed the way Dele was.

You're missing the point. Dele is being targetted because of what Mourinho perceives to be a persistent tendency to sloppiness and over-indulgence that can lead to us losing vital games. Trying to be too clever when he needs to do the simple / safe thing and pass to a teammate. Kane and Moura were trying their best but made mistakes. Big difference.

 

[billyiddo]

You're missing the point. Dele is being targetted because of what Mourinho perceives to be a persistent tendency to sloppiness and over-indulgence that can lead to us losing vital games. Trying to be too clever when he needs to do the simple / safe thing and pass to a teammate. Kane and Moura were trying their best but made mistakes. Big difference.

Moura could have passed to a team mate rather than take the more complicated indulgence of dribbling past a player and what is a throw straight to an opponent other than an act of sloppiness? Seems like Mourinho isn't the only one holding players to different standards.

Pethaps a little more game time and match sharpness would eradicate some of the sloppiness.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I agree with that but show consistency, Moura tried to kick the ball past someone yesterday and run past like he was in the play ground, he kicked it straight at the defenders foot, he loses the ball ALOT more than Alli and does not have the output Alli does to compensate, and I get he works hard but I am not sure even that compensates enough for Alli to be lambasted and Moura to play a huge portion of minutes.

With Alli like he proved earlier in season with that delicious turn for the pen in Europe, his game is about the risks, all players like him take the risks and like I say it does not come off 400%.

I agree on Son but he also has explosive pace that Alli does not have, and is using that, which is his strength as a key exponent. Allis key skill is his flair, you change that and he is not the same player.

Ultimately Jose wants robots that do it when he wants them to, which is cool, he can do that, but its going to mean a total overhaul of personnel to do that

Like I said, it’s decision making. There’s a time and a place to play it simple and there’s a time to try and be clever. That’s how he plays but he hasn’t improved on it enough.

Son is far quicker than Alli, but it’s more than that. His overall game is much better than a couple of years ago. He has improved as he has got older. Alli hasn’t. That’s why Southgate dropped him. That’s why Mourinho doesn’t fancy him. I totally agree the response is disproportionate and he needs to give him the same chances as everyone else but Alli hasn’t exactly helped himself either in the last 3 years.

 

[DeanoAustin]

You're missing the point. Dele is being targetted because of what Mourinho perceives to be a persistent tendency to sloppiness and over-indulgence that can lead to us losing vital games. Trying to be too clever when he needs to do the simple / safe thing and pass to a teammate. Kane and Moura were trying their best but made mistakes. Big difference.

As pointed out by @billyiddo, Moura has a tendency to lose the ball regularly with his dribbles in situations that are as dangerous as the one where Dele lost the ball yesterday. Take a look at his cameo at Anfield which was only 4 days before he lost the ball and contributed to us losing a goal against Leicester which pretty much killed our chances of getting anything (although we were utter brick anyway).

The point for me is still that it's not acceptable for a manager to dig a player out in public like that at any time.

 

[harr1984]

The xg chance of Stoke scoring from that position was minute at best and there was plenty of opportunity for the team/defense to step in and do their job.

It was a totally disproportionate response to the action and shows where his head is at on this subject.

Edit: like i said in a previous post you could understand if it's something that puts him in doubt for big/tight games for Mourinho due to the tactics we play but for the majority of games where we should be on the front foot to worry so much about a loss of possession in the middle of the pitch

I thought I acknowledged that the defence were still to blame. The point I was making is mainly in reference to using Moura as a reference. He tends to lose the ball in the attacking third. Dele lost the ball trying a fancy flick in our own half, and he should have easily laid that off without the need for showboating. I dont have an issue with Mourinho being upset about that....

 

[billyiddo]

I thought I acknowledged that the defence were still to blame. The point I was making is mainly in reference to using Moura as a reference. He tends to lose the ball in the attacking third. Dele lost the ball trying a fancy flick in our own half, and he should have easily laid that off without the need for showboating. I dont have an issue with Mourinho being upset about that....

Moura loses possession dribbling when a simple pass is on offer, much of a muchness.

As Deano pointed out he done so v Leicester which further down the line resulted in us conceding - nothing said, strange.

I'm sure if we were to look at it in detail we'd find multiple examples where players give up possession with similar actions.

I don't really have an issue with managers not wanting their players to give up possession cheaply - however the public reaction in this instance is unwarranted and to me points to an agenda against the player.

 

[StephenH]

The whole Dele situation is unsurprising as it happens often when Mourinho is at the helm.
When we are doing well one tends to sigh and fix on the good of the team.
Now our play is plucky underdog form at best, Dele situation feels sad and vindictive.

 

[90291Spur]

You're missing the point. Dele is being targetted because of what Mourinho perceives to be a persistent tendency to sloppiness and over-indulgence that can lead to us losing vital games. Trying to be too clever when he needs to do the simple / safe thing and pass to a teammate. Kane and Moura were trying their best but made mistakes. Big difference.

Problem is that Jose has a long history of publicly shaming certain players. I doubt any of us know what sort of psychological treatment is beat for dele, but many of us think it’s not a great tactic. We shall see.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Moura could have passed to a team mate rather than take the more complicated indulgence of dribbling past a player and what is throw straight to an opponent other than an act of sloppiness?

I'll have to watch it again but generally Moura's mistakes are despite trying his best for the team whereas with Dele it's because Mourinho believes he's gratuitously flash.

Agree, that throw by Kane was alarmingly sloppy. But a one-off mistake, not yet another careless indulgence.

As pointed out by @billyiddo

The point for me is still that it's not acceptable for a manager to dig a player out in public like that at any time.

Strongly agree with that. I don't like it one bit either. But Jose wins trophies doing it. From what we have seen of Dele's reactions in All or Nothing maybe Dele is not as put out as we think he is. Not that that makes it right.

At the end of the day we got Mourinho because Levy and most fans currently prize trophies above all else. He started off all googie-goodie and now we're seeing his nastier side. We all know what comes with the territory where he is concerned.

But if we are that desperate for trophies then maybe we just have to learn to live with it.

 

[StephenH]

I'll have to watch it again but generally Moura's mistakes are despite trying his best for the team whereas with Dele it's because Mourinho believes he's gratuitously flash.

Agree, that throw by Kane was alarmingly sloppy. But a one-off mistake, not yet another careless indulgence.

Strongly agree with that. I don't like it one bit either. But Jose wins trophies doing it. From what we have seen of Dele's reactions in All or Nothing maybe Dele is not as put out as we think he is. Not that that makes it right.

At the end of the day we got Mourinho because Levy and most fans currently prize trophies above all else. He started off all googie-goodie and now we're seeing his nastier side. We all know what comes with the territory where he is concerned.

But if we are that desperate for trophies then maybe we just have to learn to live with it.

we could try a child sacrifice? if trophies are that important!

 

[DeanoAustin]

we could try a child sacrifice? if trophies are that important!

I have two I'd willingly sacrifice right now.

 

[mjc23]

Move to PSG if Poch gets the job.