Daniel Levy - Chairman

[glorygloryeze]

It must be possible to be critical of some of Levy's doings without being categorized as someone who wants him gone. I appreciate a lot of what he's doing for the club, I just feel we would be better off not leaving buisness as late as we did, and prioritize the areas of the squad that we weakened by selling the players we did.

It also seems to me that we have too many people who wants their say in who we bring in. Levy, Poch, Baldini, Mitchell. Who is in charge, and who decides what? I think we waited until it was too lateto add a midfielder because we couldn't decide on who the targets was. The Bender link that suddenly died also supports this, although there's no way of knowing.

I might be wrong, but I'm under the impression that a lot of the same people who said things like "Don't worry, we'll add a midfielder and a striker. There's still plenty of time, relax!" are now saying things like "We added a striker in Son, and we didn't need any midfielders". I'm being very cathegorical, but hopefully you get my point. At least, I can't remember anyone saying the latter before the window closed.

It's easy to produce a statement afterwards and point to everything that was done as part of a strategy. I'm sure it was to some extent, but what I don't believe is the order of priorities. Why would it be one of Poch's main priorities to trim the squad? Why does he care if we have too many players? The can just leave out the players he doesn't want. The manager is and should only be concerned with getting the players he wants and needs. I appreciate that trimming the squad needed to be done, but it was Levy's top priority, not Poch's.

Very good point...

 

[E3zzle]

I don't think anyone is happy with the lack of Striker/CM signing - the difference, I feel, is that there are those that look to understand why/and those who look to blame - I don't think anyone is making excuses for Levy/Poch/Whoever, regardless of how it sometimes appears it's just there's always a reason why things are done/or not done as it were and I (we) think it's better to discuss those reasons rather than lay blame for everything that happens - no one is purposefully setting out to sabotage the club from within and usually there's logical reasons to explain why things have happened - rarely is it a black and white case of it just being a fudge up.

Such a childish comment... Levy is in charge, so it's his responsability. There' a very thin line between "trying to understand why" and "making excuses" imo.

We don't really know who is responsible for what with regards to transfers and from the outside it's of little importance - all that matters is those involved know their role and all are pulling in the same direction.

I disagree. What matter are the results of their work. I think everyone can agree that our recruitment has been sub par in the last few years.

Why would Poch want to trim the squad? Well he has to work with the squad day to day - if there's a whole bunch of players disgruntled that they're not getting picked or causing a negative atmosphere then I can certainly see why you'd want a smaller close knit bunch of players

The point is this can't be his top priority. This is a money issue first and foremost.

 

[StephenH]

It must be possible to be critical of some of Levy's doings without being categorized as someone who wants him gone. I appreciate a lot of what he's doing for the club, I just feel we would be better off not leaving buisness as late as we did, and prioritize the areas of the squad that we weakened by selling the players we did.

It also seems to me that we have too many people who wants their say in who we bring in. Levy, Poch, Baldini, Mitchell. Who is in charge, and who decides what? I think we waited until it was too lateto add a midfielder because we couldn't decide on who the targets was. The Bender link that suddenly died also supports this, although there's no way of knowing.

I might be wrong, but I'm under the impression that a lot of the same people who said things like "Don't worry, we'll add a midfielder and a striker. There's still plenty of time, relax!" are now saying things like "We added a striker in Son, and we didn't need any midfielders". I'm being very cathegorical, but hopefully you get my point. At least, I can't remember anyone saying the latter before the window closed.

It's easy to produce a statement afterwards and point to everything that was done as part of a strategy. I'm sure it was to some extent, but what I don't believe is the order of priorities. Why would it be one of Poch's main priorities to trim the squad? Why does he care if we have too many players? The can just leave out the players he doesn't want. The manager is and should only be concerned with getting the players he wants and needs. I appreciate that trimming the squad needed to be done, but it was Levy's top priority, not Poch's.

What is it with football fans and chairman?
Your big problem is you want to apportion blame.
Do you think Spurs tried NOT to sign a striker?
Move on, all the negative navel gazing is a total waste of time.
If you enjoy negative Spurs media rubbish watch the idiots on this video http://www.espnfc.co.uk/club/tottenham-hotspur/367/blog/post/2595969/tottenham-fans-disappointed-after-deadline-day?

 

[billyiddo]

@E3zzle




Who said it was his top priority? (No one) YOU asked - why would the manager want to trim his squad - I gave you a couple of reasons why

Of course the results in the market are what's important (again who said otherwise? Again no one) I'm not sure why you think it's important that we know the finer details, the people that are involved do know and that is what is important. What exactly do you disagree with? That the people involved should be pulling in the same direction or that they should know their roles?

You're right there is a thin line between that - but I tell you what, there's a pretty massive line between trying to understand and not even beginning to attempt to understand and frankly it's staring to look pretty obvious which side of it you are on

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

But you know the " Skysports lot" are not going to listen to reason don't you? They want in now and if the do not get it they will scream and scream and scream.

Group 1 and 3 can separately have a conversation with Group 2 and reach some kind of understanding.

Group 1 and 3 have nothing in common

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

I would add DubaiSpurs into his own group

Believes that fundamentally if we spend more money we will become more successful and make more money. You need some seriously deep pockets to play that game

Top 6 spenders in last 5 years (Sales taken into account)

1 Emirates Marketing Project £322,400,000
2 Manchester United £300,700,000
4 Chelsea £224,759,000
3 Liverpool £162,630,000
5 Arsenal £99,025,000
6 West Ham £93,400,000

 

[Raziel]

I would add DubaiSpurs into his own group

Believes that fundamentally if we spend more money we will become more successful and make more money. You need some seriously deep pockets to play that game

Top 6 spenders in last 5 years (Sales taken into account)

1 Emirates Marketing Project £322,400,000
2 Manchester United £300,700,000
4 Chel53a £224,759,000
3 Liverpool £162,630,000
5 Ar5ena1 £99,025,000
6 West Ham £93,400,000

Right idea, false numbers, really you have to look at two distinct numbers

- Total spend on players, i.e. cost +wages, the order for that over last 6 years has been -> City, Cheat$ki, Manure, Scum, Pool, Spurs then a group of West Ham, Stoke, Sunderland, Southampton, QPR with not a lot of gap between that group and us (much smaller than the gap from us to Pool.
- The second should be total spend as a % of legitimate income (i.e. gates/tv money, everything else, sponsorship/merchandising can be rigged), that would tell you how responsibly the club is being run and if risk was taken any season over season.

Basically you have about 4 or 5 big spend groups in the PL (using 6 year measurement)

- 1B+ club - city/cheat$ki/united (only clubs to win the PL in same timeframe)
- 850M+ club - Scum/Pool (should be CL spot fighters, Pool has miserably underachieved for spend)
- 250-450M club - Spurs, West Ham, Sunderland, Southampton, QPR, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, etc
- sub 200M

That's why the just spend the money argument always fails in the cold light of logic & math, the numbers above actually say another 100M worth of players is unlikely to consistently change our position even one place.

 

[Raziel]

It must be possible to be critical of some of Levy's doings without being categorized as someone who wants him gone. I appreciate a lot of what he's doing for the club, I just feel we would be better off not leaving buisness as late as we did, and prioritize the areas of the squad that we weakened by selling the players we did.

It also seems to me that we have too many people who wants their say in who we bring in. Levy, Poch, Baldini, Mitchell. Who is in charge, and who decides what? I think we waited until it was too lateto add a midfielder because we couldn't decide on who the targets was. The Bender link that suddenly died also supports this, although there's no way of knowing.

I might be wrong, but I'm under the impression that a lot of the same people who said things like "Don't worry, we'll add a midfielder and a striker. There's still plenty of time, relax!" are now saying things like "We added a striker in Son, and we didn't need any midfielders". I'm being very cathegorical, but hopefully you get my point. At least, I can't remember anyone saying the latter before the window closed.

It's easy to produce a statement afterwards and point to everything that was done as part of a strategy. I'm sure it was to some extent, but what I don't believe is the order of priorities. Why would it be one of Poch's main priorities to trim the squad? Why does he care if we have too many players? The can just leave out the players he doesn't want. The manager is and should only be concerned with getting the players he wants and needs. I appreciate that trimming the squad needed to be done, but it was Levy's top priority, not Poch's.

So lets cover this (even though some answered already)

- To start, we are light, no argument, an extra striker and midfielder would have helped.
- We did business earlier when the selling club allowed (see defensive players), WBA admitted we were talking as early as 18th Aug (and they were just being a dingdong), there was a deal for Dwight Gale that typifies why these deals go late, it was basically a 3 club loop, where one sell when they get their replacement, the buyer of that sell, then lets go their player, etc. Lots of moving parts, one breaks, entire thing fails
- Yes, Poch's exile of senior players typifies his attitude to players he does not have plans for, and in no world does having Kaboul, Capoue, Stambouli, Lennon, Ade cut out but still at training ground foster team spirit or morale. The faster those guys move on, the better.
- Re why we ended up short, in my opinion, 3 issues -
1. I really think WBA's chairman went on an ego trip and decided to fudge with us regardless of what was best for his club, manager or player.
2. Poch, I think Poch want x player, not the next best thing, and would rather no one than squad depth. No question in my mind, for 13M or so, we could have had Austin on last day, Poch had to be the one to say no to that.
3. TV money and the Sterling/Jones sagas create a false price range for players from EPL clubs, seriously 40M for Stones? .. Everton is mad not to have taken that money (Dier is very real equivalent, better player in my opinion, who would not take 40M for Dier?). 20-25M is overpaying for Berhahino as it was (Pedro for 21?), any more is just being robbed (if they would even accept it, see Stones again)
4. Additional point, when you take into account United & Arsenal's failure in exactly the same position, perhaps you can admit their isn't a huge glut of readily available strikers at the level we want (even when money is no object)

Disappointed = yes
Do I believe somehow this is a purely Levy gamesmanship play that created the problem = no

 

[metalgear]

I am sure that we would have bid for him if our manager wanted him.

true but can you believe that poch is really ok with just one CF?

 

[E3zzle]

@E3zzle




Who said it was his top priority? (No one) YOU asked - why would the manager want to trim his squad - I gave you a couple of reasons why

The club statement quoted him saying this was one of the top priorities.

Of course the results in the market are what's important (again who said otherwise? Again no one) I'm not sure why you think it's important that we know the finer details, the people that are involved do know and that is what is important. What exactly do you disagree with? That the people involved should be pulling in the same direction or that they should know their roles?

You said this was the important thing, I say they should be judged on the results, not wether they pull in the same direction.

You're right there is a thin line between that - but I tell you what, there's a pretty massive line between trying to understand and not even beginning to attempt to understand and frankly it's staring to look pretty obvious which side of it you are on

 

[E3zzle]

So lets cover this (even though some answered already)

- To start, we are light, no argument, an extra striker and midfielder would have helped.
- We did business earlier when the selling club allowed (see defensive players), WBA admitted we were talking as early as 18th Aug (and they were just being a dingdong), there was a deal for Dwight Gale that typifies why these deals go late, it was basically a 3 club loop, where one sell when they get their replacement, the buyer of that sell, then lets go their player, etc. Lots of moving parts, one breaks, entire thing fails
- Yes, Poch's exile of senior players typifies his attitude to players he does not have plans for, and in no world does having Kaboul, Capoue, Stambouli, Lennon, Ade cut out but still at training ground foster team spirit or morale. The faster those guys move on, the better.
- Re why we ended up short, in my opinion, 3 issues -
1. I really think WBA's chairman went on an ego trip and decided to fudge with us regardless of what was best for his club, manager or player.
2. Poch, I think Poch want x player, not the next best thing, and would rather no one than squad depth. No question in my mind, for 13M or so, we could have had Austin on last day, Poch had to be the one to say no to that.
3. TV money and the Sterling/Jones sagas create a false price range for players from EPL clubs, seriously 40M for Stones? .. Everton is mad not to have taken that money (Dier is very real equivalent, better player in my opinion, who would not take 40M for Dier?). 20-25M is overpaying for Berhahino as it was (Pedro for 21?), any more is just being robbed (if they would even accept it, see Stones again)
4. Additional point, when you take into account United & Ar5ena1's failure in exactly the same position, perhaps you can admit their isn't a huge glut of readily available strikers at the level we want (even when money is no object)

Disappointed = yes
Do I believe somehow this is a purely Levy gamesmanship play that created the problem = no

I agree with a lot here. But I don't think august 18th is early. We knew we needed a striker all summer. I can understand that the market was difficult, but wouldn't it be better to keep Soldado? Or at least Coulhirst?

 

[Raziel]

I agree with a lot here. But I don't think august 18th is early. We knew we needed a striker all summer. I can understand that the market was difficult, but wouldn't it be better to keep Soldado? Or at least Coulhirst?

As I said, on the light piece, I agree .. I would rather we had Bobby as option vs. exiled Ade

The club has taken a calculated gamble, only time will validate if we left ourselves too vulberable

 

[billyiddo]

@E3zzle

It's getting a bit pedantic here but anyway - "one of his top priorities" is not "his top priority", which you suggested... Do you not agree with the logic behind why MP would think it important to trim the squad, put forward by myself and others?

Re transfers, i said it was important that the people involved know their roles and are all pulling in the same direction...you said you disagreed, what do you disagree with there?

 

[StephenH]

There's none so blind as those who will not see.

 

[indianspur]

i wonder what Levy will do if we finish 7th or 8th, plus the football on show hasnt been particularly entertaining

will he stick with Poch or choose to go with the next hot manager

 

[Jordinho]

i wonder what Levy will do if we finish 7th or 8th, plus the football on show hasnt been particularly entertaining

will he stick with Poch or choose to go with the next hot manager

Anything less than 5th and the macarons will be on full show, demanding he is sacked.

 

[indianspur]

Anything less than 5th and the macarons will be on full show, demanding he is sacked.

yeah but the chairman must have a long term plan dont you think and if he does then surely he is not going to throw all that away due to some macaronic fans.....or does Levy as a Spurs fan himself have some macaronic tendencies too

 

[Jordinho]

yeah but the chairman must have a long term plan dont you think and if he does then surely he is not going to throw all that away due to some macaronic fans.....or does Levy as a Spurs fan himself have some macaronic tendencies too

Levy has been patient with every manager so far, except maybe Graham. They've all been given a chance to turn things around when questions were being asked. Ultimately there were things behind the scenes that sped up their departure.

 

[Robspur12]

Levy has been patient with every manager so far, except maybe Graham. They've all been given a chance to turn things around when questions were being asked. Ultimately there were things behind the scenes that sped up their departure.

For Ramos what happened behind the scenes was that Levy allowed his 2 top players to be sold and replaced them with crud. We then won 2 points from eight games and the rest is history. This window reminds me of the Ramos window as once again we have failed to address key areas of weakness. I hope Poch doesn't end up the same way as Ramos.

 

[Jordinho]

For Ramos what happened behind the scenes was that Levy allowed his 2 top players to be sold and replaced them with crud. We then won 2 points from eight games and the rest is history. This window reminds me of the Ramos window as once again we have failed to address key areas of weakness. I hope Poch doesn't end up the same way as Ramos.

I think his personal problems had more to do with it.