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Daniel Levy - Chairman

Sorry - I thought we were comparing how much money they take from the club? You had put up the Glaziers as a yardstick against which to compare Levy's £3m a year (plus bonuses).
John Henry paid by FSG.... Great... Maybe Lewis can pay Levy out of ENIC funds instead of THFC's?
You expected something other than decline with fcuk all investment into the team? Poch was good mate but there is no such thing as a miracle worker in football (Levy stumbled across someone who was as close as there is and then sacked him 12 games into his first bad season.... Something it seems he knows he got wrong now seeing as he went cap in hand back to him this summer). The facts of the matter are that Poch got CL for the 4th consecutive time (and a CL final) 12 games before he was sacked.

Levy earns £4M, not relevant
The no investment thing has been done to death, again several people (Hoddle/etc.) have time and time again said Poch was offered players
Levy went cap in hand? if he was so fudging bad, Spurs so poorly run, Poch so wronged, why would he even take the fudging call? (why when under huge pressure from PSG who are constantly putting out press releases saying he isn't going anywhere) why hasn't Poch come out and said I'm not interested in the Spurs job?

Look was Poch fudged by circumstance (stadium/wembley/impact on spending)? = absolutely
But he made mistakes as well and in the end the rails came off, 2 years, 9 months, 12 games - pick your moment, the team wasn't responding to him and I'd argue their lack of response to Jose (who btw for stupid argument's sake was basically 4th in points for the time he was here) and Mason show it wouldn't have changed in 6 months for Poch.
 
Interestingly enough I think Man Utd may well sack OGS and appoint Conte within about 6 months....

You still haven't told me who we sacked Jose to hire by the way ;)

They should have a year ago, they should have at the end of this season.

I did -> whole other thread about it ..
 
They should have a year ago, they should have at the end of this season.

I did -> whole other thread about it ..
In that thread all I can see is that we sacked Jose to get rejected by Nagelsman, Flick, Rodgers, ETH(?), Pochettino and Conte?

I want to know who we sacked him to hire?
 
Yes, lets have that discussion

- Not what some history grad's opinion of Levy's football knowledge (a guy running a club for 20 years) is
- Not some flimflam about Conte was doomed before he got here, but somehow in same breath we are in a mess because he didn't come
- Not some potshot at Lamela (that's even fudging worse than the under 23 statement), the same Son/Kane brick re trophies, why didn't we hear Bruno/Pogba need to leave united to win something (will be 4 seasons of Ole, 5 SF/finals = fudging zero)
- Why only spurs will lack ambition if the manager isn't a big name but Arteta is the man Arsenal needs to persist with?
- Not what Levy's salary is

That's the point, you, @DubaiSpur, @BrainOfLevy all have legitimate reason to bitch at ENIC/Levy but you guys kill it when you jump on the tired narrative brick ..

Heyyyyyyyy now, my points RE Levy and ENIC are all about our standing and ambition in the game, and how likely / how quickly they are to have us competing for the title.

I don't think any of that is narrative. FWIW I didn't think Liew's article was all that bad, he's a good writer and puts in a bit of flourish, but broadly speaking I think he offered some fair criticisms. Namely, that Conte and Spurs not working out is interesting because of what it says about Spurs' standing in the game. Are we about to win big things? Do players like Kane and Son want to stay at a club that seems to be doing things our way? These are important questions.

It's fine to say we will get there eventually with ENIC, because then we are just disagreeing on the timeline it takes, and the timeline we are comfortable with. But I think Liew's points about our ambition, standing, and the football decisions that have been taken (e.g. the wild swings from one type of manager to another, with no real long term plan or thread running through any of them, only to sack the one guy that would have happily stayed here 20 years if only he was backed / trusted) are fair points to critique.
 
I was trying to find out more about my new favourite irritant and I think I can safely close the case on any view other than he’s a wrongun:

I can’t ever remember you saying who your team is…

Off the record – entirely off the record – Spurs. Actually, you know what, you can write that but you have to also write the full story. And that’s that my first team is Spurs and my second team is Arsenal. It’s a very clear one-two. They’re not joint favourites by any means, but I do like them both.

https://thesetpieces.com/interviews/vox-in-the-box-jonathan-liew/

although fair play for calling Vardy out as racist on Twitter!
 
What is spot on mate?

- Joe Lewis is the owner? this is the type of brick that supporters say, a reporter should know better, Lewis owns a company that owns a company that owns ENIC that owns Spurs (and I may have missed out one), Lewis is not "the owner" in any normal measure.
- The best he can do to highlight how bad we are is to mention our Under 23's lost to City, come on mate, I'm quite sure you and twenty others on this board (including me) could do better re things wrong at club.
- ESL, again to push that in seems a fudging stretch
- Covid has affected Spurs? no brick, is that different from any other club at all? (notice Inter in sell mode despite winning their league and being in CL)
- Let's be clear ETH, Potter or Martinez will ALL be better appointments than United made with OGS, Chelsea with Lampard, Scum with Arteta but the media won't say that, they will play the small club brick and Spurs fans will lap it up

And again, Levy knows nothing about football? come on, he may not be a football tactician but I'm pretty fudging sure he knows more about football than some fudging history grad who never played any sport at any real level or been involved with any sporting body but is writing click bait articles.

Let me write the article for him

- We have taken too long to hire replacement manager (his only valid point)
- The media "updates" (e.g. Conte/Poch is close) were a fudge up
- The DoF move should have been done earlier if that was the plan
- Hitchens should be focused on selling/releasing the deadwood now
- The naming rights needs to be sorted to allow funds for new manager

See legitimate criticisms, not one truth plus the old tired narratives, flimflam that's just made up and huge stretches

Glad you seem to be agreeing with some of my points in the other thread about 'media updates'.

I think the DOF move is now happening and it makes me even more suspicious of the Poch leaks. I can assume Paratici is a good DOF to work for. But I would also be sceptical of the idea Poch was close to jacking it in at PSG to come back to Spurs and work for / with a DOF he had no prior relationship with...that whole thing feels fishy to me.

I would imagine we have been talking to Paratici for a few months, knowing his time was coming up at Juve. Maybe we needed to get this done before we could appoint a manager, and we could only announce him and tell candidates about him once he had left Juve. So I have some sympathy there. Anything to get Levy away from football decisions is fine by me, even if it took a bit of time. So I almost don't mind the length of time for the manager hunt, if everything had to be ordered this way. I still completely mind them taking the fans for mugs though with leaks that had suspicious timing.

But the leaks around Poch just feel completely cynical to me now. Thinking it through, we are to believe he was really close to jacking in PSG to work with a totally new guy, and next week he looks to be confirming the signings of Winjaldum (outbidding Barca on wages...) and other top players.
 
Glad you seem to be agreeing with some of my points in the other thread about 'media updates'.

I think the DOF move is now happening and it makes me even more suspicious of the Poch leaks. I can assume Paratici is a good DOF to work for. But I would also be sceptical of the idea Poch was close to jacking it in at PSG to come back to Spurs and work for / with a DOF he had no prior relationship with...that whole thing feels fishy to me.

I would imagine we have been talking to Paratici for a few months, knowing his time was coming up at Juve. Maybe we needed to get this done before we could appoint a manager, and we could only announce him and tell candidates about him once he had left Juve. So I have some sympathy there. Anything to get Levy away from football decisions is fine by me, even if it took a bit of time. So I almost don't mind the length of time for the manager hunt, if everything had to be ordered this way. I still completely mind them taking the fans for mugs though with leaks that had suspicious timing.

But the leaks around Poch just feel completely cynical to me now. Thinking it through, we are to believe he was really close to jacking in PSG to work with a totally new guy, and next week he looks to be confirming the signings of Winjaldum (outbidding Barca on wages...) and other top players.

Leonardo does the transfers for psg. Partly why poch seemed unhappy.
 
Levy earns £4M, not relevant
The no investment thing has been done to death, again several people (Hoddle/etc.) have time and time again said Poch was offered players
Levy went cap in hand? if he was so fudging bad, Spurs so poorly run, Poch so wronged, why would he even take the fudging call? (why when under huge pressure from PSG who are constantly putting out press releases saying he isn't going anywhere) why hasn't Poch come out and said I'm not interested in the Spurs job?

Look was Poch fudged by circumstance (stadium/wembley/impact on spending)? = absolutely
But he made mistakes as well and in the end the rails came off, 2 years, 9 months, 12 games - pick your moment, the team wasn't responding to him and I'd argue their lack of response to Jose (who btw for stupid argument's sake was basically 4th in points for the time he was here) and Mason show it wouldn't have changed in 6 months for Poch.
It's very relevant.... It makes him the single highest paid for his position person at Spurs.

I've been sounded out by previous employers a fair few times in my career, I always listen to what they have to say in case:

a) they are offering a ridiculously large package
or
b) the parameters of the employment have radically changed.

I've never gone back to a previous employer (so far) and I doubt I ever will, but I always listen. It costs nothing.

I would imagine Pochettino has said nothing as he gains nothing from saying anything. PSG are saying he is staying and he is more than happy to stay and it seems that he has been showing his commitment on working on them getting in a couple of very good bosman signings.

Everyone makes mistakes.... I think the rails have come off for our chairman in the last 4 years or so far more than they did for Pochettino though. If Levy has enough credit in the Bank to survive his most recent poor 20% of his time at Spurs (and perhaps he does?) then do you not think that Pochettino should also have been given that same courtesy?
 
Everyone makes mistakes.... I think the rails have come off for our chairman in the last 4 years or so far more than they did for Pochettino though. If Levy has enough credit in the Bank to survive his most recent poor 20% of his time at Spurs (and perhaps he does?) then do you not think that Pochettino should also have been given that same courtesy?

No, and that's the point that people miss

- There is NO historical context of a manager at a top level club turning around a sustained bad run

That's it, teams go into spirals (and yes the players should take more responsibility) and unless it's caught very quickly it doesn't recover and the next step is firing the manager (and sometimes that isn't enough), history is littered with League & CL winners who didn't survive the next season.

If had been done before, I could see the logic of giving Poch a chance, but it just hasn't ..
 
What is spot on mate?

- Joe Lewis is the owner? this is the type of brick that supporters say, a reporter should know better, Lewis owns a company that owns a company that owns ENIC that owns Spurs (and I may have missed out one), Lewis is not "the owner" in any normal measure.

Come on mate, this is just semantics at this point. If you want to frame it like that, neither Abramovich nor Mansour are the owners of City either, and the Kroenkes are not owners of Arsenal - they are all owners of various companies that own companies that own their clubs (ADUG and KSE in Mansour and Kroenke's cases).

Joe Lewis owns us in the same way that every Premier League owner owns their clubs. To pretend he doesn't because he uses holding companies is to basically say no PL owner owns their club.

- The best he can do to highlight how bad we are is to mention our Under 23's lost to City, come on mate, I'm quite sure you and twenty others on this board (including me) could do better re things wrong at club.

Nah. That bit's silly, I agree, but out of an entire article, that is one example he uses out of many.

ESL, again to push that in seems a fudging stretch

Was it not an aborted disaster on almost every conceivable level?

Covid has affected Spurs? no brick, is that different from any other club at all? (notice Inter in sell mode despite winning their league and being in CL)

Inter in sell mode has a lot less to do with COVID than you'd think, that's all. It's more to do with their Chinese owners being rendered unable to get their funding out of China to Inter, due to the PRC's strict new laws regarding external investment.

- Let's be clear ETH, Potter or Martinez will ALL be better appointments than United made with OGS, Chelsea with Lampard, Scum with Arteta but the media won't say that, they will play the small club brick and Spurs fans will lap it up.

Potter of 16th-place Brighton?

Bobby f*cking Martinez?

ETH I'll give you, but you are pushing it with those two mate. At best, appointing those two would be taking us back to 2001 when ENIC took over in terms of the kinds of utterly pointless appointments they would be - not surprising, but a horrible downgrade all the same.

OGS, btw, actually won titles in Scandinavia, making him a better appointment initially than both Potter and Martinez. Just to show how low the bar is here.

And again, Levy knows nothing about football? come on, he may not be a football tactician but I'm pretty fudging sure he knows more about football than some fudging history grad who never played any sport at any real level or been involved with any sporting body but is writing click bait articles.

Seems fair, honestly. This managerial search, his pathetic penny-pinching for 20 years, his constant bungling in terms of who he actually hires, firing one of the best things that ever happened to us in Poch, his clown-like approach in the documentary ('I struggled with my school grades' as a motivational speech to an unhappy player - brilliant, just brilliant).

I'd say he doesn't know much beyond negotiating for pennies for hundreds of weeks, destroying any concept of squad building, and occasionally lucking into good managers that bail out his horrible choices and cowardice.

Let me write the article for him

- We have taken too long to hire replacement manager (his only valid point)
- The media "updates" (e.g. Conte/Poch is close) were a fudge up
- The DoF move should have been done earlier if that was the plan
- Hitchens should be focused on selling/releasing the deadwood now
- The naming rights needs to be sorted to allow funds for new manager

See legitimate criticisms, not one truth plus the old tired narratives, flimflam that's just made up and huge stretches

Add all that to the points made in the article, sure.

For a supposedly brilliant commercial mind, btw, his bungling of naming rights will stand in history as an example of how to fail in that sphere. Even there, I'm doubtful his reputation is all that based in reality - our rate of commercial income growth has barely increased beyond that of our competitors in the same time frame, which should be the most basic example of a good commercial mind.
 
Heyyyyyyyy now, my points RE Levy and ENIC are all about our standing and ambition in the game, and how likely / how quickly they are to have us competing for the title.

I don't think any of that is narrative. FWIW I didn't think Liew's article was all that bad, he's a good writer and puts in a bit of flourish, but broadly speaking I think he offered some fair criticisms. Namely, that Conte and Spurs not working out is interesting because of what it says about Spurs' standing in the game. Are we about to win big things? Do players like Kane and Son want to stay at a club that seems to be doing things our way? These are important questions.

It's fine to say we will get there eventually with ENIC, because then we are just disagreeing on the timeline it takes, and the timeline we are comfortable with. But I think Liew's points about our ambition, standing, and the football decisions that have been taken (e.g. the wild swings from one type of manager to another, with no real long term plan or thread running through any of them, only to sack the one guy that would have happily stayed here 20 years if only he was backed / trusted) are fair points to critique.

And I'm good with your view re ambition/timing

People like Liew can write a real article, potshots at under 23s, Lamela, Levy's "football knowledge" are all brick/petty statements that completely negate any real view.

We know nothing re Conte not working out, what I would say is 3 years ago, Conte wouldn't have taken the call (so what does that say?), and he couldn't make up his mind in the article if getting Conte or not getting Conte was the problem.

The problem with the article is his points are anecdotal (being kind)

- Do I agree that swapping from Jol -> Ramos -> Harry -> AVB -> Poch -> Jose seems to be "lurching" with no real plan? = seems so
- Big problem? = that timeline is a 16 year almost constant improvement in club results/revenue/profile = so why isn't it working?
- I could say Chelsea's strategy is crazy (what manager haven't they hired?) but they get results with it = so you (and as reporter with any kind of training should know) need to temper it
 
Come on mate, this is just semantics at this point. If you want to frame it like that, neither Abramovich nor Mansour are the owners of City either, and the Kroenkes are not owners of Arsenal - they are all owners of various companies that own companies that own their clubs (ADUG and KSE in Mansour and Kroenke's cases).

Joe Lewis owns us in the same way that every Premier League owner owns their clubs. To pretend he doesn't because he uses holding companies is to basically say no PL owner owns their club.

For a supposedly brilliant commercial mind, btw, his bungling of naming rights will stand in history as an example of how to fail in that sphere. Even there, I'm doubtful his reputation is all that based in reality - our rate of commercial income growth has barely increased beyond that of our competitors in the same time frame, which should be the most basic example of a good commercial mind.

- It's not the same, because RA & Mansour are active owners (they could chose not to be), I'll be fudging surprised if Lewis get's more than a quarterly briefing document with a few KPIs on Spurs.
- Tottenham's commercial growth over the last 15 years has exceeded every club bar United from a percentage perspective, so yeah, he's actually very good at that.
 
For a supposedly brilliant commercial mind, btw, his bungling of naming rights will stand in history as an example of how to fail in that sphere. Even there, I'm doubtful his reputation is all that based in reality - our rate of commercial income growth has barely increased beyond that of our competitors in the same time frame, which should be the most basic example of a good commercial mind.


 
- Let's be clear ETH, Potter or Martinez will ALL be better appointments than United made with OGS, Chelsea with Lampard, Scum with Arteta but the media won't say that, they will play the small club brick and Spurs fans will lap it up

Can you clarify this please in terms of Potter and Martinez: what is it about those two that would make them better appointments for us now than OGS and Lampard were for United and Chelsea back then?
 
Can you clarify this please in terms of Potter and Martinez: what is it about those two that would make them better appointments for us now than OGS and Lampard were for United and Chelsea back then?

Really?

- Lampard had what a season in the Championship and was an ex player
- Ole fudged up at Cardiff, had manged Molde and was an ex player

As a starter

Martinez and Potter have actually made a season in the PL
Martinez has been a manger for 14 years, with 3 PL clubs & Belgium

Truth is the only reason OGS & Lampard even had their CV looked at was the "ex-player" qualification

Not saying I want either but clearly they would be a step up from a Lampard/Ole type appointment (same as Arteta)
 
Can you clarify this please in terms of Potter and Martinez: what is it about those two that would make them better appointments for us now than OGS and Lampard were for United and Chelsea back then?
Competence and experience
Both have won trophies the hard way for a start
They also understand the psychology element of the game
Chelsea won the CL with lampards squad that he said wasn’t ready and couldn’t defend well enough
Ole keeps on doing just enough for people to think he is in charge
 
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