• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Daniel Levy - Chairman

scaramanga said:
If the perceived value were too low then, again, we would sell fewer tickets.

Our ticket sales appear to be fairly strong, which would suggest that your concerns over a lack of value are not widely shared.
Click to expand...

No because this is a captive market. If you don't keep paying up you lose your access both those season and for many subsequent seasons to come.

So the fact that ticket sales are fairly strong doesn't mean that everyone is happy with the value proposition
 
Crab.C.Nesbitt said:
No because this is a captive market. If you don't keep paying up you lose your access both those season and for many subsequent seasons to come.

So the fact that ticket sales are fairly strong doesn't mean that everyone is happy with the value proposition
Click to expand...
Yet they're happy enough to keep buying.
 
Crab.C.Nesbitt said:
We're going round in circles here!

I'd argue the captive market aspect is more critical to people continuing to pay up.
Click to expand...
Surely any sensible business would take that aspect of the market into account when pricing.

There's only one measure of a price being too high and that's a lack of demand. Whilst there certainly is a captive market, that simply adds to the value.
 
Crab.C.Nesbitt said:
Who said that? I've never said I brought a season ticket because of links with Conte?

Levy/enic did well up to a point, but people guve them too much credit. They have made plenty of mistakes in their time and the last couple of years have been a series of non stop clusterfudges.

Throughout Enic's ownership we have been in the top 20 clubs for income across the whole of europe, so I'd argue the our performance in thst time has been about what might be expected for a club in thst income bracket. Except you would have hoped that we'd won a few more cups with thst level of income.

If you want to make spurious club and owner comparisons why not compare us with Liverpool and Leicester?
Click to expand...

Not saying they haven't made mistakes. Not saying i don't want new owners.

Everton have been in the top 10 richest list in the prem for the last 10 years. How many trophies they won?

There are only a finite amount of trophies to go around. Only 1 in europe if we qualify.

Because i wasn't the one who started with the spurious club and owner comparrisons, mine was a counter. If you want to counter my counter i'll say sunderland and leeds. Your move. I bet you run out of clubs before i do.
 
scaramanga said:
Surely any sensible business would take that aspect of the market into account when pricing.

There's only one measure of a price being too high and that's a lack of demand. Whilst there certainly is a captive market, that simply adds to the value.
Click to expand...
That depends whether you are viewing the equation from the angle of the customer or the business.

Its not true to say demand is the only measure of a price being too high. Industry regulators can step in to adjust prices where they are deemed exploitative, particularly where you have a captive market...although sadly that doesn't apply to football
 
Crab.C.Nesbitt said:
That depends whether you are viewing the equation from the angle of the customer or the business.

Its not true to say demand is the only measure of a price being too high. Industry regulators can step in to adjust prices where they are deemed exploitative, particularly where you have a captive market...although sadly that doesn't apply to football
Click to expand...

Away tickets it does.
 
Lilbaz said:
Not saying they haven't made mistakes. Not saying i don't want new owners.

Everton have been in the top 10 richest list in the prem for the last 10 years. How many trophies they won?

There are only a finite amount of trophies to go around. Only 1 in europe if we qualify.

Because i wasn't the one who started with the spurious club and owner comparrisons, mine was a counter. If you want to counter my counter i'll say sunderland and leeds. Your move. I bet you run out of clubs before i do.
Click to expand...

Everton haven't been in the top 10 at all. They bounced in and out of the top 20:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deloitte_Football_Money_League

Ive got another potentially spurious comparison....if athletico madrid had been in the prem do you think they wouldn't at least have won a couple of fa cups? :)
 
Crab.C.Nesbitt said:
That depends whether you are viewing the equation from the angle of the customer or the business.

Its not true to say demand is the only measure of a price being too high. Industry regulators can step in to adjust prices where they are deemed exploitative, particularly where you have a captive market...although sadly that doesn't apply to football
Click to expand...

What I don't understand is that it is this precise dynamic which means we should absolutely question our owners and hold them to account. We have to balance support with questioning them because we actually can't go anywhere else. This is exactly why!

The argument that people buy so the price is right is fine other than it assumes every club couldn't do the same thing. Clearly there is a lens other than the purely financial which they look through, in order to build relationships with the fans and justify a value proposition they are putting out there.
 
Crab.C.Nesbitt said:
Who said that? I've never said I brought a season ticket because of links with Conte?

Levy/enic did well up to a point, but people guve them too much credit. They have made plenty of mistakes in their time and the last couple of years have been a series of non stop clusterfudges.

Throughout Enic's ownership we have been in the top 20 clubs for income across the whole of europe, so I'd argue the our performance in thst time has been about what might be expected for a club in thst income bracket. Except you would have hoped that we'd won a few more cups with thst level of income.

If you want to make spurious club and owner comparisons why not compare us with Liverpool and Leicester?
Click to expand...

So all you are saying is Enic have delivered par? I would agree, but the stadium, training ground, a few clever buys, managerial appointments and CL football push them into positive territory.

There was always going to be a rebuilding stage at Spurs post-Poch. We had a steady ascent over the last two decades. When that rise inevitably stuttered there is bound to be fallout and dismay from fans. But all folks can do is blame Levy? Without considering the bigger picture? We have come a long way as a club in Enics time. Post covid we are closer to the hallowed 'rich club' dream many fans seem to aspire to. And who navigated Spurs on this path? It is not like it just happened by itself, we had no divine right to be a big club. The scum are not as well set up as us are they? Villa, Everton were no different to what we were. Would you swap their current setup, stadium, and last 10 years for ours?

Many fans are pretty ungrateful. No Levy doesn't always get it right, but more often than not he delivers. Which is more than can be said for fans appreciation.
 
Last edited:
SpurMeUp said:
So all you are saying is Enic have delivered par? I would agree, but the stadium, training ground, a few clever buys, managerial appointments and CL football push them into positive territory.

There was always going to be a rebuilding stage at Spurs post-Poch. We had a steady ascent over the last two decades. When that rise inevitably stuttered there is bound to be fallout and dismay from fans. But all folks can do is blame Levy? Without considering the bigger picture? We have come a long way as a club in Enics time. Post covid we are closer to the hallowed 'rich club' dream many fans seem to aspire to. And who navigated Spurs on this path? Is it not like it just happened by itself, we had no divide right to be a big club. The scum are not as well set up as us are they? Villa, Everton were no different to what we were. Would you swap their current setup, stadium, and last 10 years for ours?

Many fans are pretty ungrateful. No Levy doesn't always get it right, but more often than not he delivers. Which is more than can be said for fans appreciation.
Click to expand...

I think this is fair. I think the smartest thing ENIC did was decide to make a strategic choice around wanting to be a consistent top 6 club, so they could have regular European football, build the club's profile and ticket waiting list, and get into financial fights they knew they could win.

I think they've done that, where other clubs decided they wanted to punt at short term glory which would more often than not be unsustainable unless the owners had the stones to see it through a couple of down cycles.

Question is where next. I really feel that if the stadium was going to elevate us on the footballing side as I thought it would, Conte wouldn't have been a difficulty. Sacking Poch wouldn't have been considered. I think we're a club that may be top 6 95% of the time, and top 4 40% of the time. I would like us to be a club that is top 4 66% of the time and title winners 15-20% of the time. I'm not sure it happens under ENIC, even with our stadium. Not as things stand.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
I think this is fair. I think the smartest thing ENIC did was decide to make a strategic choice around wanting to be a consistent top 6 club, so they could have regular European football, build the club's profile and ticket waiting list, and get into financial fights they knew they could win.

I think they've done that, where other clubs decided they wanted to punt at short term glory which would more often than not be unsustainable unless the owners had the stones to see it through a couple of down cycles.

Question is where next. I really feel that if the stadium was going to elevate us on the footballing side as I thought it would, Conte wouldn't have been a difficulty. Sacking Poch wouldn't have been considered. I think we're a club that may be top 6 95% of the time, and top 4 40% of the time. I would like us to be a club that is top 4 66% of the time and title winners 15-20% of the time. I'm not sure it happens under ENIC, even with our stadium. Not as things stand.
Click to expand...
Where next is the hardest thing to get right
And the most important
The infrastructure and basics are there and will be more so with the new DOF
Now Levy needs the right person in charge which he did clearly trying to do
He cannot afford to get the next one wrong. The knock on would be huge. We just need to get back into Europe next season even at conference level to get back in the CL and the extra money that brings to put back into the squad
That’s a carrot for the new manager. Par with the current squad is top 6 still. Fix the squad and have a plan (including fitness) and uh should be a place higher or better
But it’s all ifs, buts and maybes still
 
Crab.C.Nesbitt said:
Sorry but that's not the way it should be. We charge the most expensive season tickets, therefore it's not unreasonable to expect us to be challenging at the top of the league.

If you want to be a sap and settle for second best or mediocrity than by all means be my guest.

But that's not the tottenham way, that's not the Tottenham motto, and no we shouldn't just have to sit back and lap it up.

Fans have every right to criticise the substandard stewardship of our club.

It's nothing to do with being snowflakes or millennial. It's about not being patsies meekly getting rinsed for every penny and then saying please sir can I have some more
Click to expand...

But we have been challenging at the top of the league? We challenged more than once when Poch was here, as well as reaching the CL final. This season was a car crash for sure, but even then, for a (short) while, we were challenging and we were top. We're not that far away from where we want to be. Levy messed up hugely, enormously with Poch and then compounded it by hiring Jose, but I am sure no one knows that more than Levy himself. I understand why fans are frustrated with Levy, I agree he needs to put some distance between himself and the negotiating table and trust a DoF to do the right thing for the manager/coach, I agree we need to be more proactive and efficient in our buying and in our selling, I agree we need to find a way to loosen the purse strings. But, we were just beginning to see the shoots of the benefits of the new stadium in the window before Poch was let go. Then both the mistake of Jose and the financial impact of Covid have stymied us and set us back, but not insurmountably so. I also agree that if Levy continues to charge premium ticket prices, then he needs to deliver a premium 'product'. I am normally one of life's pessimists, or at least one of life's cynics, but I'm willing to give a bit more time to see how things pan out when we have the new stadium at full capacity, with extra events, over the next 12-18 months. Who knows, maybe by the end of that timeframe, I'll be joining in with the Levy-out calls, or maybe I'll be celebrating as we knock City off their perch (ok, maybe that's a bit farfetched just yet, that's why I'm better as a pessimist).
I don't want to downplay anyone's dissatisfaction, we are all fans of the club above all, and everyone is entitled to have opinions and expectations and the club management should be aware and heed what they are hearing. But there seems to be a sense of hysteria abounding at the moment which just feels to me to be hugely out of proportion.
 
Diamond Lights said:
it's not about specific signings which you clearly know.

Every season, we start behind the curve with us signing players on the last day of the window who have then not settled immediately and take time to find their feet.

Now, whilst some teams are settled and starting their plans on requirements for next season, not only are we unable to do that, but we haven't even got a manager in the door.

You might be absolutely buzzing and paying the highest ticket prices in the League for that, for losing cup games as part of the ST package but replaced with a CL group package which funnily enough, doesn't exist now as we're not in the CL, but have we got our Cup games back instead, no... but i'm not. I expect better for what we pay. And as long as people keep licking Levy's balls over the issue, we'll continually be walked all over.
Click to expand...

Leicester now in talks with both Edouard and Soumare.

LEVY DEFENDERS, ASSSSEMMMMBLE.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
Lilbaz said:
Right, tinkled so here goes with the home truths:

Enic and levy don't owe you anything. Trophies or otherwise.

Your season ticket, entitles you to watch games.

Buying a shirt entitles you to a shirt.

I supported them since blah blah, is worthless. Especially if all you have done is moan for the last 5 years.

That's the way it is sorry.
Click to expand...

I'm sure if your boss walked in tomorrow and said "I'm cutting your salary in half, that's the way it is sorry" you'd blindingly accept then.

If you charge the highest season ticket prices in the league with one hand, you can't then expect to continually loan players from the Portuguese league who fail to make the grade with the other.

Imagine in the 80s you were rounding up the kids milk cartons to hand back to Maggie Thatcher with that attitude.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
I think we face a bit of an identity...not crisis...but maybe 're-identification'. Redefinition of who we are. Posted something along these lines in the stadium thread. We look like a big club. Visit the stadium or training ground and you'd struggle to name better across the globe. To look at we are there. But of course, we are not there. We are far from it. We were closer to our footballing aspirations in a tumbledown reduced capacity WHL. In old WHL expectations were different. Spurs identity was different. We were happy to be plucky and punch above our weight. Now we are still that plucky underdog fiancially, just wearing a smart overcoat which hints at more. It is a funny moment in our history. At the moment we are still an aspiring club, still financially the same as we were at WHL. While things won't change overnight (see how City took years to taste success even when financially doping) we feel different now. Because we know there is more to come. Fans are impatient. They want it all now. But the biggest con we sell ourselves is that on-field success is the destination. What made WHL great was the unity, the passion, the honesty. We didn't pin all our hopes on on-field success there. I am a little saddened at how fans have lost their previous identity and togetherness. It is almost like Levy has created a stadium that carries expectation in its foundations.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back