Daniel Levy - Chairman

[SpurMeUp]

We charge the highest ticket prices in the league and have done for over a decade, are in London, and were the 4th- most successful side in all England at the dawn of the PL era. Not sure our pedigree is insignificant, and equally, it's probably harder overtaking us on account of those natural advantages than it would be for other clubs, regardless of ownership. That needs to be factored in too - not sure assigning it to Levy's mediocre leadership is good logic.

LOB. As you know TV is where the money is. A few quid more on tickets won't move the dial, will they? What has London have to do with it? Pool have (or had) a larger revenue than us by about 100m a year.

• So you wouldn't prefer Learner over Levy? An owner who spent millions and millions.
• You can only name pool as a club Levy should have emulated.
• You don't acknowledge the stadium and training complex, these state-of-the-art facilities just appeared?
• You don't think we've done well to attain CL football and put ourselves in and around the elite?

I would suggest you support a side like city, but the truth is, you'd hate it. You'd have nothing to complain about

 

[SpurMeUp]

@SpurMeUp - and as for Pool, they're such a good example because they did with Klopp what we should have done with Poch, in an often directly comparable sense. They backed him, FSG invested their own cash, they won the PL and the CL. Those could have been our trophies with Poch. They should have been - I'm convinced Poch is a better manager than Klopp, and he worked miracles on the miserable shoestring budget Levy gave him.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1388529128463286275

That could, and should, have been us. But we had ENIC, they had FSG. To our enduring misfortune.

Why did klopp win things pre-pool and poch not? Your arguments are thoroughly rational.

 

[DubaiSpur]

I would suggest you support a side like city, but the truth is, you'd hate it. You'd have nothing to complain about

Do better, mate. Easy for me to say too that I hope you're still at Spurs when Levy leaves and don't follow ENIC to whatever other club they take their mediocrity to, since you seem to be more of a fan of them than us - but you're Spurs, and that would be going too low.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Why did klopp win things pre-pool and poch not? Your arguments are thoroughly rational.

Klopp managed Dortmund, Poch managed Espanyol and Southampton. That's why.

As for the other bit about stadium and training complex, Everton will have built both in about half the time ENIC did, a couple of years from now - doesn't that make Moshiri a better owner? Fairly certain that at this stage in his ownership, his Everton are probably outperforming where ENIC had us in the early years.

Also, Leicester have a new training ground, City have England's best, half a dozen clubs have new training grounds. It's no longer a slam dunk.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Do better, mate. Easy for me to say too that I hope you're still at Spurs when Levy leaves and don't follow ENIC to whatever other club they take their mediocrity to, since you seem to be more of a fan of them than us - but you're Spurs, and that would be going too low.

I wasn't suggesting you should actually sell out and support the oil barons. Just making a point, that were we perfect, what would you get a bee in your bonnet about?

 

[DubaiSpur]

I wasn't suggesting you should actually sell out and support the oil barons. Just making a point, that were we perfect, what would you get a bee in your bonnet about?

Would always be something - even the beer I had when I went to the new gaff, which I found sub-par, tbh. But the point is, I'd still be around at Spurs. So will you, when ENIC goes. This club is ours, and asking each other to support either City or wherever ENIC go next is useless, is all.

 

[Robspur12]

LOB. As you know TV is where the money is. A few quid more on tickets won't move the dial, will they? What has London have to do with it? Pool have (or had) a larger revenue than us by about 100m a year.

• So you wouldn't prefer Learner over Levy? An owner who spent millions and millions.
• You can only name pool as a club Levy should have emulated.
• You don't acknowledge the stadium and training complex, these state-of-the-art facilities just appeared?
• You don't think we've done well to attain CL football and put ourselves in and around the elite?

I would suggest you support a side like city, but the truth is, you'd hate it. You'd have nothing to complain about

By all means make an argument, disagree with someone's opinion but it is a really poor to tell a poster to go and support another team when they make a counter argument to yours.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Would always be something - even the beer I had when I went to the new gaff, which I found sub-par, tbh. But the point is, I'd still be around at Spurs. So will you, when ENIC goes. This club is ours, and asking each other to support either City or wherever ENIC go next is useless, is all.

The point I was making, which @Robspur12 missed (as well as not actually not telling Dubai to "go and support another team", read it again), was Spurs is so compelling because of Levy. It is a saga. I don't think he has always made the right decisions. I'm sure Levy doesn't think he has either. It is a rollercoaster ride under his stewardship. He is impatient for success. Sometimes rash (you could argue he was sacking Poch), but it is never dull. If you supported a team like City, imagine how dull it would be. What would you debate? What sense of achievement would you have when you landed a title of cup?

I had no choice in supporting this team. That makes things very easy for me. Wherever they are, I will support them. It was passed to me, and I will pass on the (curse ) to my kids. But you know what, in a world of dopped clubs, there aren't many chairmen who could get their team competing; and we stand a far better chance of silverware with Levy at the helm.

I think a lot of the vitriol stems from lockdown and people's frustrations.

 

[thfcsteff]

The point I was making, which @Robspur12 missed (as well as not actually not telling Dubai to "go and support another team", read it again), was Spurs is so compelling because of Levy. It is a saga. I don't think he has always made the right decisions. I'm sure Levy doesn't think he has either. It is a rollercoaster ride under his stewardship. He is impatient for success. Sometimes rash (you could argue he was sacking Poch), but it is never dull. If you supported a team like City, imagine how dull it would be. What would you debate? What sense of achievement would you have when you landed a title of cup?

I had no choice in supporting this team. That makes things very easy for me. Wherever they are, I will support them. It was passed to me, and I will pass on the (curse ) to my kids. But you know what, in a world of dopped clubs, there aren't many chairmen who could get their team competing; and we stand a far better chance of silverware with Levy at the helm.

I think a lot of the vitriol stems from lockdown and people's frustrations.

He allowed himself to lost sight of what was working because (put simply) it was almost unbelievable. And thus easy to take for granted.

 

[Bishop]

Ultimately, we are much better than when ENIC took over, and other clubs who were similar to us, have not fared as well. Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Villa, Everton for example. Have these other large clubs all been exceptionally badly run, as they have fared far worse than Levy-run Spurs? Which other non-doped clubs would you point to as having outperformed us?

On top of the pretty good on-the-field performance under Levy, we've also built a stadium that will lift Spurs up into a new echelon. And to cap it off, built what is widely regarded as one of the best training facilities in football! Are you sure of your unemotional objectivity?

You seem to be conflating the wider "success of the club" with the specifics of his transfer performance. You spoke about his transfer dealings as being exceptional and that is what I replied to.

So yes I think I am being quite objective when I speak about his transfer work. He has not been exceptional in that regard as I said it's silly to only cherry pick what we consider as the good transfers because otherwise the majority of a teams transfer work has been "exceptional".

Liverpool, Leicester, Wolves even West Ham have by that method also been "exceptional." It makes a mockery of the superlative if we are assigning it so easily.

Spurs have equally bought well at times and poorly at times, we have not capitalized on opportunities far to many times for the transfer work to be labelled exceptional. To many gaps in the squad have been ignored and allowed wither. The way the Eriksen saga was run is not the work of an "exceptional" transfer operator.

 

[SpurMeUp]

You seem to be conflating the wider "success of the club" with the specifics of his transfer performance. You spoke about his transfer dealings as being exceptional and that is what I replied to.

So yes I think I am being quite objective when I speak about his transfer work. He has not been exceptional in that regard as I said it's silly to only cherry pick what we consider as the good transfers because otherwise the majority of a teams transfer work has been "exceptional".

Liverpool, Leicester, Wolves even West Ham have by that method also been "exceptional." It makes a mockery of the superlative if we are assigning it so easily.

Spurs have equally bought well at times and poorly at times, we have not capitalized on opportunities far to many times for the transfer work to be labelled exceptional. To many gaps in the squad have been ignored and allowed wither. The way the Eriksen saga was run is not the work of an "exceptional" transfer operator.

Okay so you concede that we are in a better position now than when ENIC took over - that is something!! [emoji322]

Hasn’t our average league position over ENICs tenure been higher than all those clubs, maybe bar pool? How have Spurs outperformed these sides for 20 years, it wasn’t to do with our player recruitment?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Gazza]

Okay so you concede that we are in a better position now than when ENIC took over - that is something!! [emoji322]

I’d say that our average league position over ENICs tenure has been higher than all those clubs, maybe bar pool. How have Spurs outperformed these sides then? It wasn’t to do with our player recruitment?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

Levy and Enics model will not bring us success ... they have done two good things in building a training complex and a stadium ... while every other top club is reinvesting their money in the the first team, Levy has convinced everyone that it's non sustainable...

 

[SpurMeUp]

Levy and Enics model will not bring us success ... they have done two good things in building a training complex and a stadium ... while every other top club is reinvesting their money in the the first team, Levy has convinced everyone that it's non sustainable...

Okay so a stadium that brings in more revenue than any other in the land, not only generating money for player investment from our games but also from non-footballing events, will not help us compete? [emoji85]

Some folks are blinkered.

I don’t mind fans keeping pressure on Levy. But I would be saddened to see him leave. Football is littered with worse owners. Many who ploughed their own money in like Randy Learner. It didn’t do Villa any good whatsoever. What is surprising is that fans are so caught up in a narrative about Levy they can’t see the reality in front of them. We are vastly better then we were before Levy and ENIC. If you take out the oiled clubs I don’t think there are any other clubs, maybe with the exception of pool who have been run as well.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Bishop]

Okay so you concede that we are in a better position now than when ENIC took over - that is something!! [emoji322]

Hasn’t our average league position over ENICs tenure been higher than all those clubs, maybe bar pool? How have Spurs outperformed these sides for 20 years, it wasn’t to do with our player recruitment?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

You really are finding it difficult to stay on topic. Once again we are talking about transfers. You claimed he was exceptional in that regard. That is the conversation not the stadium build, not the sponsorship deals not the state of the cheese factory just the discussion about transfer performance.

I didn't even want to digress and follow your diversions of conversation because I wanted to talk about the specific subject that was mentioned but fine.

We haven't even outperformed the rest for 20 years. There have been specific periods where we did so.

Initially under Jol, who was then sacked because he was no longer massively outperforming the support given to him and levy saw a shinier more exotic toy. Our performance then regressed to the mean.

We then next rose under Harry who again excelled and outperformed expectations and again he was sacked this time despite achieving the overachieving goals. After he left again we regressed to the mean.

Finally we have the Poch era where again we massively overperformed. Without going in to tons of detail, the manager like the previous was not backed in the moments they were overachieving in and the the form dropped and once again they were sacked and our performances have regressed to the mean.

It's not Levy that has had us over perform for periods it's the managers who he has stumbled upon.

You like to use Villa as an example but there also Leicester wwho let's be frank ha e done better than we have and are again doing better than we are. If they win the FA Cup this season that will be two major trophies I'm 6 years and likely 2 CL qualifications. Now they are a team I would be comfortable declaring as exceptional transfer dealers bit even then that might be going too far.

But Levy...exceptional in transfer dealing? You're only looking at it with one eye.

 

[billyiddo]

Levy and Enics model will not bring us success ... they have done two good things in building a training complex and a stadium ... while every other top club is reinvesting their money in the the first team, Levy has convinced everyone that it's non sustainable...

Investing in the team when there are 5 clubs far richer than you won't lead to any meaningful success and it is entirey right to say that it would be unsustainable to do so that's basic econimics.

Investing in the team now we have the stadium behind us and 3 of those 5 clubs are now much of a muchness in terms of revenue means we can actually achieve something meaningful, which looking at the money spent since moving in suggests we are prepared to do.

 

[Raziel]

You really are finding it difficult to stay on topic. Once again we are talking about transfers. You claimed he was exceptional in that regard. That is the conversation not the stadium build, not the sponsorship deals not the state of the cheese factory just the discussion about transfer performance.

I didn't even want to digress and follow your diversions of conversation because I wanted to talk about the specific subject that was mentioned but fine.

We haven't even outperformed the rest for 20 years. There have been specific periods where we did so.

Initially under Jol, who was then sacked because he was no longer massively outperforming the support given to him and levy saw a shinier more exotic toy. Our performance then regressed to the mean.

We then next rose under Harry who again excelled and outperformed expectations and again he was sacked this time despite achieving the overachieving goals. After he left again we regressed to the mean.

Finally we have the Poch era where again we massively overperformed. Without going in to tons of detail, the manager like the previous was not backed in the moments they were overachieving in and the the form dropped and once again they were sacked and our performances have regressed to the mean.

It's not Levy that has had us over perform for periods it's the managers who he has stumbled upon.

You like to use Villa as an example but there also Leicester wwho let's be frank ha e done better than we have and are again doing better than we are. If they win the FA Cup this season that will be two major trophies I'm 6 years and likely 2 CL qualifications. Now they are a team I would be comfortable declaring as exceptional transfer dealers bit even then that might be going too far.

But Levy...exceptional in transfer dealing? You're only looking at it with one eye.

Levy makes mistakes, but the reality is

- There is progression
- Jol took the club to a place, Harry improved that, then so did Poch

There have been stumbles (probably less than most, in that period, Chelsea, Pool & United IIRC have all missed out on Europe, we haven't). Your regression to mean is still an improvement is long run (AVB was better results wise than Jol, Jose still got us European football)

If the club is better places, position, infrastructure in 3-5 year intervals, then it's on Levy, not the manager/s

Now to the point of exceptional in transfer dealing, I wouldn't go so far for a specific reason

- While there have been some crazy success buys in the Levy era -> Bale, Walker, Lloris, Modric, Carrick, Eriksen, Bale, Berbatov, Son, Jan, Toby, VDV
- We have been poor at selling players at the right pace, current example Rose
- Our risk strategy (it's legitimate if we like it or not) has meant we have refused to "overpay" for certain players that have been very successful (some have not as well to be fair)

 

[SpurMeUp]

I think we need to appreciate what Levy has to work with.

If a manager (and fans) wanted to keep Rose, Dele and others Levy has to act right? He has negotiate and sign them up to contracts to keep them. He can’t ignore his manager and punt them on while their wages are low.

Levy will probably work with say Hitchen or whoever on this, but it is the manager who has to craft the team and signal their intent with each player. Levy is mostly subservient to the manager.

We couldn’t sell Rose because he didn’t want to half his wages. Similar with Dele. Is that Levy’s fault or just the reality of modern football?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Gazza]

Levy makes mistakes, but the reality is

- There is progression
- Jol took the club to a place, Harry improved that, then so did Poch

There have been stumbles (probably less than most, in that period, Chelsea, Pool & United IIRC have all missed out on Europe, we haven't). Your regression to mean is still an improvement is long run (AVB was better results wise than Jol, Jose still got us European football)

If the club is better places, position, infrastructure in 3-5 year intervals, then it's on Levy, not the manager/s

Now to the point of exceptional in transfer dealing, I wouldn't go so far for a specific reason

- While there have been some crazy success buys in the Levy era -> Bale, Walker, Lloris, Modric, Carrick, Eriksen, Bale, Berbatov, Son, Jan, Toby, VDV
- We have been poor at selling players at the right pace, current example Rose
- Our risk strategy (it's legitimate if we like it or not) has meant we have refused to "overpay" for certain players that have been very successful (some have not as well to be fair)

And missed the mark with so many that could have served us better in winning trophies and gaining success.

His basement bargain bucket deals in the 11th hour do not help the team or manager settle.

If he can change this strategy then we could have legitimately be on to being a big club not just pretending to be one.

It's like me getting a classic ferrari and replacing the engine with a dacia sandero engine.

 

[Bishop]

Levy makes mistakes, but the reality is

- There is progression
- Jol took the club to a place, Harry improved that, then so did Poch

There have been stumbles (probably less than most, in that period, Chelsea, Pool & United IIRC have all missed out on Europe, we haven't). Your regression to mean is still an improvement is long run (AVB was better results wise than Jol, Jose still got us European football)

If the club is better places, position, infrastructure in 3-5 year intervals, then it's on Levy, not the manager/s

Now to the point of exceptional in transfer dealing, I wouldn't go so far for a specific reason

- While there have been some crazy success buys in the Levy era -> Bale, Walker, Lloris, Modric, Carrick, Eriksen, Bale, Berbatov, Son, Jan, Toby, VDV
- We have been poor at selling players at the right pace, current example Rose
- Our risk strategy (it's legitimate if we like it or not) has meant we have refused to "overpay" for certain players that have been very successful (some have not as well to be fair)

I think that's all fair, we disagree obviously slightly on how well we think Levy has done but minor niggle.

And you understand as well why to claim we have been exceptional in the transfer market just doesn't add up.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

The incumbent manager said the team needed a (painful) rebuild. Levy took the cheaper option and replaced him. Quite why Levy felt he knew more about our team than our coach of over 5 years coming off the back of 4 straight CL qualifications I have no idea?!?

Agreed. @billyiddo I don’t think ‘wants’ us to be top 8 rather than challenging for the title for example, I’m sure he’d love us to be challenging for the title. But there’s 2 things; I don’t think he fully understands what made us successful with one of our best ever managers (so I don’t trust his capability to take us there anymore, as much as I thank him for the job he’s done to this point). And secondly, I think it’s completely fair to say every time we could have really backed the manager, when a little bit more money here or there could have put us over the edge, he’s never done it. It’s always been his plan, his need to keep control of the finances, his need to be seen as Europe’s toughest negotiator so that in future deals he can be seen to have gotten the absolute best price.

So, I don’t think he has the capability moving forward, and I don’t trust that he is the perfect person for us now. I don’t worry that if we don’t have Levy, we end up doing a Villa. I think he’s a good man, and has put his life into the club and has done us a lot of good. I think he was the perfect person to thread the needle between keeping a control on costs while building a stadium and keeping us as competitive as possible. I don’t think he’s the guy we trust to take that final leap. I agree with Finney above - why Levy thought he knew more than Poch, I have no idea either. This is what makes me not trust him. He didn’t understand why Poch was successful. And I think if he was pitching this job across Europe as one where we could genuinely challenge for the title and make the leap, ETH would be jumping all over it. But I don’t think he wants that, I think he wants to still keep some control on things and not over extend ourselves.

So I guess we can be happy with Levy that we will never fall too far back. But I just don’t think we will ever make the leap under him. Whether it’s his plan, or his instincts, I just don’t think he is the guy to make it happen.